Legal Threat To Get Lumimat To Pay Its Debt
Had to make a legal threat to Coop CEO to get Lumimart to pay the money it owed me. I sought a peaceful resolution because I believe litigation should be the absolute last resort.
SUMMARY: After Lumimart ignored my request for refund of an item that was never shipped, I had to make a legal threat, and escalated it to parent company (Coop)'s CEO and everyone else I knew there. It must have sent a shock wave :-) -- same day I got an email from CEO of Lumimart (after his company ignored me for a long time). Details below. At the end he send me an apology, a $100 gift card, and said they'll use my advice in improving their processes. But it was very difficult, time consuming and stressful for me to bang heads against a "stone wall" they put up by ignoring my request for refund for item they never shipped!!
SUMMARY: It was like what the heck!! They stone walled me - ignoring my emails - and just dropped the ball -- while they owed me about 90 CHF. The day I made a legal threat and escalated the case to Coop CEO and his assistant and everybody else I knew within Coop, Lumimart CEO wrote me back 😂 and of course they had to refund the money or I was going to take legal action (gave them a deadline) but they immediately resolved it. It shouldn't be like this. Nobody should go through so much pain to get their own money!!
SUMMARY: 50 emails and escalation to Coop CEO (parent company) to get Lumimart to refund 90 CHF that they took for a product they didn't even ship!! They finally made the refund plus a 100 CHF gift card, and sent thanks for my help in improving their organization.
[Money amounts are approximate, rounded, and consider currency exchange since the original amounts were in Swiss Francs but converted by the bank to Dollars].
Had to escalate to the CEO to get Lumimart to pay off the money they owed me.
I bought a lamp for the grandmother from Lumimart for about $90. We found something better for $40 at the same shop, so immediately cancelled the online order – and received confirmation on the web and via email that the order was fully cancelled.
The lamp I bought for $40 was delivered to the grandmother. She didn’t like it, so we sent it back with a mailing label provided by Lumimart that included a slip to be included in the box.
I noticed on my credit card that Lumimart charged $90. I wrote to them and said they have to refund the $90 (see above).
They said they’re waiting for the $40 lamp to be returned. That didn’t make sense to begin with because that lamp was returned a long time ago -- I had confirmation via registered post that it was delivered -- and it was a totally different transaction anyway. A long time went by, and no refund. I wrote back and the more emails -- the answers I was getting back sounded stupid and out of touch with the facts. They hadn’t figured out that the item they sent and which was returned was $40 not $90) despite my trying to explain this to them (I wrote most emails in German and English). The more I was given the run around the more frustrated I got.
So many emails back and forth, I thought this was either a case of fraud – where they tried to rob me of $90, or utter incompetence.
I was getting responses from different people, different departments -- and NO REFUND!! At some point a Daniel Eicher appeared to have dropped the ball and refused to respond to my emails and NO REFUND. The case went into a black hole. I got sick of waiting, getting nonsense answers, and then getting stone walled.
I found out Lumimart belongs to Coop. I asked one last time to get contact info for Lumimart's CEO but they refused to give it to me. So I wrote a strong email to CEO of Coop, Mr. Joos Sutter, saying if they don’t refund the money by Friday I am going to take legal action -- and sent it to his assistant too to make sure he gets the email – and everybody else I knew within the Coop world. Within a few hours I got an email from CEO of Lumimart, Mr. Oliver Roth – whom I suppose got the notice from Mr. Sutter.
My email must have sent shock-waves through the mediocre status quo :-) – somebody must have gotten a message from the big boss “what the heck is going on”. That’s what you get for shutting a door on a customer and refusing to give a refund you owe the customer.
First Oliver Roth tried to subtly blame the saga on me saying I didn’t include a slip in the return box of the $40 lamp (which had nothing to do with the $90 they owe me for another product which they never shipped). Fact is, I did include it, I have a witness, and even photos of the box -- so I pushed back saying, that is not true. And anyway, it didn’t matter because that was a totally different order for a different product, different price, and was returned days ago, and I had confirmation from post that it was returned. So, they were talking nonsense – I’m sure Oliver Roth was just repeating what their staff told him, which was a lie -- I supposed to cover their incompetent handling of the case – and it was convenient for him politically to tell the Coop boss, it wasn’t their fault. It was.
So far, I sent most of the key correspondence in German – given Mr. Roth is the CEO, I sent this in English. I pushed back and gave him the facts:
FROM: Reza Ganjavi
TO: Mr. Oliver Roth, CEO, Lumimart
Dear Mr. Roth
Thanks for your email. I asked for your name (CEO of Lumimart, Livique) but they refused to give it to me). Unfortunately your email contains a number of factual errors -- I suspect the same people who mishandled the case gave you the wrong info to cover up for their inept handling of the case.
This case was ABSOLUTELY, 100% LUMIMART'S FAULT. NO QUESTION ABOUT IT.
1) There was absolutely a return slip included in the item I sent back. It was part of the document you sent me and I included that -- I have a witness who helped me tape up the box -- and I even have photos. The issue is not even about that item. That item was about 40 CHF and that case is closed.
2) The issue is about you taking about 90 CHF from my account and refusing to return it and shutting the door in my face, ignoring the case, dropping the ball, and the worst nightmare of "customer service" one can imagine. To get your attention I had to write to the CEO of your parent company, Coop, Mr. Sutter, and had to call and get his assistant's number to make sure he gets the message.
Most people shouldn't have to go thought that stress. And this is to avoid litigation. I could have just gone to the court and you would have lost the case, I guarantee it and you'd have to pay the court costs, and my lawyer's fees -- a few thousand francs later. But because I'm a nice guy and I don't like lawsuits, I went out of my way after writing many many MANY times and getting ignored to escalate it to Mr. Sutter. That's NOT the way it should be.
The order that was cancelled and never shipped was billed on my card and your staff refused to return the money -- again: the order was immediately cancelled -- your staff confirmed it -- and the item was never shipped -- YET -- you charged me -- and when I asked you to return the money, I got a bunch of nonsense for an answer that showed they didn't even bother look into the issue.
Regardless, Mr. Daniel Eicher's handling of the case was absolutely pathetic. Not only he arrogantly dropped the ball, which wasted a lot of my time -- and caused tremendous distress at wastage of AT LEAST 2 hours of my time (you should send me a gift card for Coop -- I shop there all the time and love their Bio food) -- he apparently neglected to properly investigate the case and gave me info and when I responded to him that was factually incorrect (I can prove it), he just dropped the ball! That's NOT how you should handle customers and YOUR mistakes. You'd NEVER see that kind of customer service attitude from a German, US or UK company.
I thought Switzerland would catch up with proper customer service attitude 15 years ago when German companies and e-retailers started flooding the Swiss market -- but apparently, you've fallen behind in properly training your people.
Have a nice evening. If you want to send me a gift card I won't refuse it: <adr>
I can't believe I had to go through so much stress to get you to pay your debt (53 EMAILS including this one). That is at least 2 hours of my time. My clients pay me <> CHF per hour -- that's <> CHF and the distress on my health even had a worst impact. This is a FACT. So a gift card for a fair amount would be appreciated. See attached screen-print showing 53 emails exchanged on this stupid case which a good customer service organization should have handled with 1 email!
He wrote back appreciating my feedback and taking the time to describe the facts. “We will take your case as an opportunity to review our organization and internal processes.” – yes, they need it. And he sent me a 3 figure gift card. I spent far more time and stress on this than that but it’s ok. Case closed.
It’s unbelievable. I’ve never seen such bad customer service, where the company just doesn’t bother digging into the facts and feeds you nonsense, doesn’t refund the money they owe you, and say they’re not going to answer your emails any more. Well their CEO did!!
MY EARLIER EMAILS (latest first – my first email had a friendly tone but it got stronger the more nonsense answers I got)
The email to Coop CEO:
WENN ICH BIS ZUM ENDE DES TAGES AM FREITAG, DEN 18. DEZEMBER 2020, NICHTS VON COOP/LUMIMART HÖRE, WERDE ICH EINE <>. VERDAMMT, ICH BIN VERÄRGERT. DAS WÄREN SIE AUCH, WENN JEMAND IHR GELD GENOMMEN HÄTTE UND SIE DANN ANGELOGEN HÄTTE, INDEM ER SAGTE, WIR HÄTTEN IHNEN DEN ARTIKEL GESCHICKT UND WÜRDEN AUF SEINE RÜCKGABE WARTEN. VERDAMMT, DAS IST EINE LÜGE, DENN DIE LEUTE, DIE DIESEN FALL BEARBEITEN, SCHEINEN ZU INKOMPETENT UND KLEINGEISTIG ZU SEIN, UM 2 UND 2 ZUSAMMENZUZÄHLEN UND DEN EINFACHEN FALL ZU VERSTEHEN - ALSO WERDE ICH MIT LÜGEN GEFÜTTERT. UND DANN SIND SIE SO ARROGANT ZU SAGEN, DASS SIE MEINE EMAIL NICHT BEANTWORTEN WERDEN, NACHDEM IHRE FIRMA ANGEBLICH MEIN GELD <> HAT.
ICH HABE WIEDERHOLT EINEN KOMPETENTEN MANAGER GEBETEN, SICH DIE SACHE ANZUSEHEN UND DAS GELD, DAS SIE MIR SCHULDEN, ***ZURÜCKZUERSTATTEN***. ABER DAS IST NICHT GESCHEHEN, WAS MICH ZU DER ANNAHME BRINGT, DASS DER ANGEBLICHE <> VORSÄTZLICH WAR.
ICH WERDE DIE KANTONALE POLIZEI DIE SACHE UNTERSUCHEN LASSEN, DA IHRE LEUTE ZU INKOMPETENT ZU SEIN SCHEINEN, UM DAS ZU UNTERSUCHEN.
FREITAG 17 UHR IST DIE FRIST.
IF I DO NOT HEAR FROM COOP/LUMIMART BY END OF DAY THIS FRIDAY 18 DECEMBER 2020, I WILL FILE A <>. HELL AM I UPSET. YOU WOULD BE TOO IF SOMEONE TOOK YOUR MONEY AND THEN LIED TO YOU SAYING WE SENT YOU THE ITEM AND ARE WAITING FOR IT TO BE RETURNED. HELL THAT'S A LIE BECAUSE PEOPLE HANDLING THIS CASE SEEM TO BE TOO INCOMPETENT AND SMALL-MINDED TO PUT 2 AND 2 TOGETHER AND UNDERSTAND THE SIMPLE CASE -- SO I GET FED LIES. AND THEN THEY'RE SO ARROGANT TO SAY THEY'RE NOT GOING TO ANSWER MY EMAIL AFTER YOUR COMPANY ALLEGEDLY <> MY MONEY.
I HAVE REPEATEDLY ASKED A COMPETENT MANAGER TO LOOK INTO THIS AND ***REFUND*** THE MONEY YOU OWE ME. BUT THAT HASN'T HAPPENED, WHICH GIVES ME THE BELIEF THE ALLEGED <> WAS INTENTIONAL.
I WILL LET CANTONAL POLICE INVESTIGATE IT SINCE YOUR PEOPLE SEEM TOO INCOMPETENT TO INVESTIGATE IT.
FRIDAY 5 PM IS THE DEADLINE.
Email to Coop’s CEO’s assistant, Fatma Sousa:
Dear Ms. Sousa
This is an urgent legal matter. Please discuss with Mr. Sutter and get back to me.
Thanks and regards
Email to Coop CEO
LIEBE HR. SUTTER
BITTE SCHAUEN SIE SICH IHRE BANDE AN, DIE NICHT GERADE SCHIESSEN KANN!
DEAR MR. SUTTER
PLEASE LOOK INTO YOUR GANG WHO CAN'T SHOOT STRAIGHT !!
My last email to Lumimart before escalating to Coop CEO:
WIE IST DER STATUS DIESES FALLES? WURDE ER IM SCHWARZEN LOCH DER INKOMPETENZ ODER DES BETRUGS VON LUMIMART AUFGEFRESSEN? DER BETRAG, DEN SIE MIR IN RECHNUNG GESTELLT HABEN, WAR *KEIN* ARTIKEL, DER AN MICH VERKAUFT ODER VERSANDT WURDE. LIEFERN SIE EINEN BEWEIS, WENN SIE NICHT EINVERSTANDEN SIND. DAS KÖNNEN SIE NICHT, WEIL SIE LÜGEN. ERSTATTEN SIE MIR MEIN GELD ZURÜCK, DAS SIE UNRECHTMÄSSIG VON MEINEM KONTO GENOMMEN HABEN. ICH FRAGE ZUM LETZTEN MAL: NENNEN SIE DEN NAMEN DES CHEFS VON LUMIMART ODER ICH GEHE ZUM CEO VON COOP, BEVOR ICH EINE <>.
WHAT IS THE STATUS OF THIS CASE? DID IT GET EATEN IN THE LUMIMART BLACK HOLE OF INCOMPETENCE OR FRAUD? THE AMOUNT YOU CHARGED ME WAS *NOT* FOR ANY ITEM THAT WAS SOLD OR SHIPPED TO ME. PROVIDE PROOF IF YOU DISAGREE. YOU CAN'T BECAUSE YOU'RE LYING. REFUND MY MONEY THAT YOU ILLEGITIMATELY TOOK FROM MY ACCOUNT. I AM ASKING FOR THE LAST TIME: PROVIDE THE NAME OF CHIEF OF LUMIMART OR I AM GOING TO CEO OF COOP BEFORE I FILE A <>.
My response to Daniel Eicher’s email:
What you say absolutely makes NO SENSE. The unit that was returned was NOT 88 dollars. It was half that price! Hello!! And Swiss post is very efficient and we have the tracking that shows it was delivered 11 days ago. Even Walmart or shops much bigger than you could process a return in 11 days. Anyway, you have your facts mixed up and even though I have explained the facts to you multiple times you just don't get it -- incompetence -- or you're trying to cheat me -- I don't know which it is. I asked for the contact info of your CEO.
The item I returned 11 days ago cost 35 CHF+7 postage and not 88.
I NEED A FULL REFUND ON THE 87.88 CHF IMMEDIATELY.
I will have to take legal action against Lumimart if you do not immediately refund the full amount. And Lumimart be responsible for full legal costs.
Telling me to wait is NOT acceptable. Because the money you took had nothing do with the item that was sent back 11 days ago DUH!
I NEED NAME OF YOUR CEO AND CONTACT DETAILS BEFORE I TAKE LEGAL ACTION. PLEASE SEND IT TO ME *TODAY*
My email to Daniel Eicher
Dear Mr. Eicher
I have no idea why two different customer numbers are involved. But I don't care. [I had sent copy of the credit card charge, etc., and they had all the facts, and this was not rocket science. We're talking about two simple transactions for God's sake -- I even explained it to them]
"You will be refunded this amount as soon as we have received and booked the returned item. This is currently not yet the case."
What the heck are you talking about?!?!? Received and booked WHAT item? There was no such item !!!!!!!! Give me a frikin break!!!!!!!
I only bought ONE item from you and I returned it immediately. [The other was immediately cancelled and never shipped].
I NEED A FULL REFUND ON THE 87.88 IMMEDIATELY.
My responses to Mr. Duarte, Carmen, etc...
You are 100% WRONG. 100% WRONG. I ALREADY SENT THE SCREENSHOT. IT'S NOT A "RESERVATION" / AUTHORIZATION. IT'S AN ACTUAL CHARGE. AND IT'S NOT FOR 42 WHATEVER - IT'S FOR 90 WHATEVER -- YOUR COMPANY TRIED TO <> OVER 90 FRANCS OF MY MONEY BY AN UNAUTHORIZED CHARGE.
I REFER YOU TO THE MSG I SENT EARLIER.
NOW GET ON WITH IT AND DON'T PUSH THE BALL BACK IN MY COURT. YOU HAVE ALL THE INFO YOU NEED. I ASKED TO KNOW THE NAME OF CEO OF LUMIMART CARMEN. WHAT HAPPENED?
AND STOP FEEDING ME GARBAGE. LUMIMART HAS A *SCREEN PRINT* THAT SHOWS IT'S AN ACTUAL CHARGE.
I'M TIRED OF DEALING WITH INCOMPETENCE.
WHAT'S THE CEO OF LIMIMART'S NAME. THIS IS THE 3RD TIME I'M ASKING
Frau Carmen Aebischer
Bitte senden Sie mir den Namen, die E-Mail-Adresse und die Telefonnummer des CEO von Lumimart.
Lumimart hat mein Geld <> und meine Bitte um eine Erklärung und Rückerstattung ignoriert.
Bevor ich zur Polizei gehe, möchte ich mit Ihrem CEO sprechen und herausfinden, ob er wirklich will, dass Ihre Organisation so böse ist, oder ob dies nur ein dummer Fehler ist.
Wenn ich mir einen Anwalt nehme und Sie verklage, werden Sie den Fall verlieren, und es wird Sie mindestens Hunderte von Francs kosten. Ich gehe am Mittwoch zum Friedensrichter, wenn ich nichts von Ihnen höre - UND - von der Polizei.
Übrigens, ich bin nicht dumm. Ihre letzte E-Mail an mich war extrem <> für meine Intelligenz und hat gezeigt, dass Sie KEINE IDEA haben, worum es in dem Fall geht - was meine Bitte ist - und worüber Sie sprechen.
Dank und Grüße
Frau Carmen Aebischer
Please send me the name, email, and phone number for CEO of Lumimart.
Lumimart has <> my money and have ignored my request for an explanation and refund.
Before I go to the police, I want to talk to your CEO and see if he really wants your organization to be so wicked or if this is just a stupid screwup.
When I get a lawyer and sue you, you WILL LOSE THE CASE and it will cost you at least hundreds of francs. I am going to the Friedensrichter on Wednesday if I don't hear from you -- AND -- the police.
By the way, I'm not stupid. Your last email to me was extremely <> to my intelligence and showed that you have NO IDEA what the case is about -- what my request is -- and what you're talking about.
Thanks and regards
That's the wrong feedback:
1) When is the refund going to be issued?
2) Why was I charged almost twice?
Your answer is extremely disappointing which means either you or Bookkeeping didn't understand the question or that your company is truly a thief and is just playing it stupid.
WAS GEHT HIER VOR???????????
WIE VIELE TAGE BRAUCHEN SIE, UM IHREN EIGENEN <> ZU UNTERSUCHEN ??????????
ICH BRAUCHE EINE ANTWORT ***HEUTE***
WHAT IS GOING ON???????????
HOW MANY DAYS DO YOU NEED TO INVESTIGATE YOUR OWN <> ??????????
I NEED AN ANSWER ***TODAY***
My first email:
Order number 170058615
I bought something for 42.90 on 20 Nov 2020. I see a charge (not authorization) on my card for 3 Dec 2020 I called. Frau Ebischer said that the charge on the card was only an authorization and was not charged, therefore, it will just drop off.
She confirmed the amount is: 42.90. Fact: Lumimart charged my card for $87.88 for purchase on 22 Nov. She checked my customer number 14076453. And confirmed that I did not buy anything else -- just the 42.90.
So why did Lumimart charge my card 87.88? (CHF 78.51). She requested screenshot. Attached.