Jaap Sluijter, Krishnamurti Foundation America (KFA) vs. Krishnamurti

Also see: Why Executive Director of KFA Jaap Sluijter Is A Disgrace To Krishnamurti https://www.rezamusic.com/writings/on-j-krishnamurtis-work/Why-Executive-Director-of-KFA-Jaap-Sluijter-Is-A-Disgrace-To-Krishnamurti

Main posting and comments by Reza Ganjavi

Krishnamurti Foundation America (KFA) vs. Krishnamurti

J. Krishnamurti said: don't mix me with other things... how would he feel about what Krishnamurti Foundation America (KFA) has been doing, i.e., diluting him in a number of ways, the latest being, hosting a Vedic Chanting / Healing Voice workshop!

It's held at the "pavilion" which Jaap Sluijter built with the excuse that the place somehow needed a yoga pavilion. Sponsoring yoga classes there is a whole different story, especially the way it was marketed which was very contrary to Krishnamurti's idea that he did the exercises for physical health only and not to reach any elevated states or for spiritual enrichment and enlightenment and realization...

And these yoga classes had very few participants and there was ample space there already. Ok, so a yoga pavilion was built. I don't know if and how many orange trees were cut in order to build the pavilion. What I do know is that KFA was very irresponsible in how it managed the land -- at the oak grove -- it was trashed last time I was there -- there are very disturbing pictures of it -- and the neglected road is another story which Jaap said he will never fix because he doesn't go there (LOL)!! And the oak trees are a different story.

Anybody who went there to hear Krishnamurti would be shocked to see the place now which made me cry last time I was there at seeing the number of cut and dead trees... Anyway this is a long story and it will all be documented for the sake of history ... but for now, it was interesting that Jaap's yoga pavilion has magically transformed into an events center and God only knows what they will be hosting next. Now we have healing voice... next? Kali Puja?

The event is publicized by one of the KFA insiders: their yoga teacher!

If Jaap had the idea of turning KFA into a yoga center, he should have done a lot more marketing research. Ojai is brimming with yoga centers and yoga teachers. Who needs another yoga center? Certainly not Krishnamurti (LOL)... and meanwhile most people in Ojai have never heard of Krishnmurti and at some points Krishnamurti Foundation AMERICA's executive director, Jaap Sluijter was doing meetings in Korea and Taiwan (LOL) ... not to mention the China Tour (not the book fair). It0's certainly an upside down world we live in. Given Krishnamurti's dignity, wisdom, and all that he said for many decades about the perils of organizations, it's particularly sad to see this in motion. And this is only a small part of the story. There's a lot more to these guys and their bad, wrong decisions, and some very disturbing facts which will be published.

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COMMENTS BY REZA GANJAVI (only Reza's comments are posted here, due to copyright law)

Indeed Nathan. It's a disgrace in my opinion. Krishnamurti made it very clear to close friends that he didn't want to be mixed with other things. There are other terrible things about this hopeless organization too. And the painful part is K saw all this coming and warned about it. If he were a guru or some kind of cult leader you'd just expect this to happen!

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See my videos on the subject:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yza0e98peEU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBYY55YDhEE

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True Gigs -- even the pranayamas, Mary Z told me, and it's documented, he strictly did them for health benefits -- of course they have other benefits but that can also be a trap people get caught in and turn it into a cult.

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Waldo wrote : "K was so against organizations it makes sense that his legacy will not be one. " -- I agree Waldo -- the way you put it is interesting -- it reads: his legacy will not be an organization :-) -- yes, perhaps -- and it's important that these foundations question their own existence and charter regularly. KFA's gone astray in my opinion and going further. I don't want to know what's next... and this is just 30 years past K's death -- imagine the crap that's going to be going on there under Krishnamurti's name in 50 years if this trend continues. And he'll be sucked right into tradition the way some of the idiots predicted -- a self fulfilling prophecy! And don't forget before his death, K said to a close friend he's surrounded by people who don't have the foggiest idea what he's talking about -- and 3 of his closest friends went to K asking: what should be done with a guy who turned out to be involved, later, in some nasty stuff, including losing millions in foundation's funds by acting against K's express will on the matter.

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Not everything posted here is supposed to "help us in our self inquiry" ;-) -- there is a role for written history.

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I agree with the latter part of your post -- but don't think there's competition as you mention or if some people feel that way it's silly -- at least I never think of it that way. And as far as protection, did Buddha's work really survive ? I don't think so -- a lot of garbage is also published as Buddha's work that we have no historical evidence that it is. And the same with other great people. And the distortion is not just at that level - it's about interpreters. Look at how much is considered Islam which the Prophet would not agree with, didn't say, and is not in the Koran, and that's a book which is well preserved given it is not so old (relatively).

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Dear Alex, this is a complex subject... I am not expecting the foundations to be K clones smile emoticon. Yes I also always thought he had taken "stern stance" as you put it to get some points across which otherwise the power of conditioning was too strong for it to come across -- just my personal impression -- but that doesn't reduce the depth and importance of those stances. Ultimately what he stood for is of secondary importance to my or your life. K was merely a set of pointers and challenges. But, he made some things very clear -- like not wanting to be mixed with other things by his foundations and KFA is going against that -- and importance of truth ... ok let's not go there presently! I disagree with your choice of words that he tried to show a path -- because he absolutely didn't -- because the word "path" has a specific meaning in my mind - you may not mean the same by it - it's fixed - and it leads to a fixed spot. Truth is dynamic.

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Folks, let's be clear that when we're talking about Krishnamurti, one of many great philosophers, one thing that he made VERY CLEAR was that he was NOT offering a new path or new religion or new sect or new system and he made it VERY CLEAR that he did NOT want to be followed -- and wanted to be doubted, like any great pointer!! Please let's not turn this into a discussion on organized religions because that's a political matter these days and very sensitive.

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I have wondered about this question of pathlessness. I don't think we can say one who doesn't follow a path is on a path of pathlessness smile emoticon -- I have also wondered if K positioned himself as indeed a path of pathlessness (vs. his contemporaries, Rajneesh, Maharishi, Yogananda, etc. who all offered paths)!

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Kiran, indeed that SHOULD be the case -- but what is dogma? when you think something may not be true but you still believe it to be true and don't even want to examine it. What is dishonesty? When you know something is false yet you portray is as truth because convenience is more important than truth. When dealing with a "cunning animal" to quote K there is no room for debate or dialogue -- dialogue is for those who have an interest in truth. I personally think most problems in life can be solved through understanding them. Now let's talk about KFA. K called them an "idiotic foundation". He knew what he was talking about. There are some very intelligent and good people there but also people like Jaap Sluijter, Mark Lee, Rabindra Singh, and a couple of others whom I can't stand for very good reasons. And don't think I haven't tried to reason with that place -- have you ever talked to a rock? How about a dogmatic rock? Have you ever studied dictatorships and their values? And trust me I am not the only one who is alienated by this pathetic hopeless organization. I know it's difficult to know exactly why but I've published a fraction of the reasons already (linked above) and much more to come.

But there's absolutely no hatred. I am unable to hate. Couldn't even hate George W. Bush who ruined the world or other idiotic dictators. Last week I was in Netherlands and heard the Dutch accent which reminded me of Jaap and I even felt love for him -- a person whom I can't stand and want to have nothing to do with -- in my opinion, the worst leader KFA has had in all the years I've known them, and the worst executive of all the public, private, non profit, international, government, and other organizations I've had to deal with.

Same with Mark Lee -- I just got fed up with the nonsense and now what appears to be fictions that he's promoting around K -- and his involvement in some things in KFA which is nasty to say the least, and so on.

So love is independent of that. You can even love scum but not want to go near it.

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The only difference I see between any other organization and an organization around a great man like K who happened to dread organizations and didn't want any around him as much as possible, is remotely applying what he stood for -- you know, some basic things...

K went around the world for some 65 years talking about certain things, like "you are the world and the world is you", the problems of dogma, about supreme intelligence. the perils of image making, etc etc. If you find a trace of that among some of the people who are running KFA, please let me know wink emoticon

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We can argue that a company that is well run by a highly competent management team is for sake of reward (their bonuses, etc.) and avoidance of punishment (getting fired) but also it may be for love. There are many companies that are started based on a passion and desire to help humanity or purely love of something and not just reward and punishment. But the subject of accountability is very vital in this case because non profits are a whole different ball game.

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Evelyne Blau is probably the only one who was put on the board by K. Last I heard she had not been that active on the board due to her husband's illness. He passed away last year: https://variety.com/2014/film/obituaries-people-news/louis-c-blau-entertainment-attorney-who-represented-stanley-kubrick-dies-at-99-1201207399/

I met him at Evelyne's house.

As for availability of the teachings, you're talking about preservation part of the charter of the foundation . There's more to it.

"These people did not act differently while K was alive."

Well, since there's probably only one on the board who was put there by K I think your statement is not applicable. If you're talking about the rest, I believe K would have fired the whole board and shut the place down if he saw some of the things they did - like he tried to shut down KFI.

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He says if X has no thought of himself and he realizes that theoretically Y doesn't either (while in this example Y does) and that Y is just a mind stream then... the rest. But that IF is a false proposition because in this example Y does have a self -- he walks around thinking what does she think of me, etc etc etc

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I don't usually use those terms "dream ego" but can go along with that. Psychological self is a fictitious entity made from thinking.

If there's awareness of image making process then it comes to an end dynamically (or rather finds its right place). Still what "Bright Mountain" says makes no sense for the reason I explained above.

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Scott is not and has never been on KFA board. I am not sure if Mark Lee was on the board when K was alive. I have to double check. I do know that 3 of K's closest friends went to K before he dies and asked him what they should do with Mark.

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Yes I go along with that. We can say the self is "confused thought" because it's entering where it doesn't belong and making an entity which is like a bubble... and giving it permanency and wanting to give it continuity through variety of sometimes neurotic means.

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Anybody who studies history sees that. But can it be prevented? What we have before our eyes at Krishnamurti Foundation America is a tragedy, in my opinion, especially in light of Krishnamurti's repeated warning's about perils of organizations. I have thought a number of times, have they read history? Forget about history... I have also wondered at times if some of the leadership have even read and lived with even just one book of the founder. Keep in mind criteria for bringing in trustees has been pretty strange in itself and the repercussion of it has been painful to witness.

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Madan wrote: "All of us here are searching the way to pathless land." -- I am not. And many other people here are not either smile emoticon so that's a false statement smile emoticon ... in general it's hard to talk about "we" ...

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K went out of his way to make sure his teachings are not esoteric. There's a comment about that from one of the people who works in one of his foundations in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBYY55YDhEE

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I posted this bit of "creative writing" today on Harshad's thread: "I think it's difficult to talk about K Foundations in general. They're quite different. Huge difference between KFT & KFA for example ... well, KFA has to be at the bottom of the pile ... I have yet to see a worse organization, anywhere, and I've worked with a lot. The interesting point is that K saw this coming... perhaps things will be better in 50 years once some of the people K said haven't got a clue what he's talking about (and they insist that they do) are gone, but that's if there's anything left and in the case of KFA it hasn't turned into some new age yoga / vedanta center with Jaap choking up golden eggs and pulling ash out of the air (LOL)."

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There's a huge difference. K went out of his way to make sure his work is not esoteric.

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NO dear Kiran! We can't say psychology is esoteric b/c it talks about the inner world! This is the proper meaning: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/esoteric