“Don't waste $6000 on the guru in India - trust me, it's not worth it - he won't give you anything you can't get on your own -- and if he does then you're dependent on him and not free. You have every tool to get free or find whatever it is you're after.” Reza Ganjavi
On the work related
(and unrelated)
to the work of
J. Krishnamurti
June 2013
by Reza Ganjavi
Your comments are most welcome. Reza Ganjavi can be contacted via email: (info – at – rezamusic – dot – com). For further information about RG’s work, please see: www.rezamusic.com
TABLE OF CONTENTS:
Preface. 2
Introduction. 2
Video: Interview & Discussion With Dr. Parekh. 2
Mary Zimbalists’ Diaries Are Being Published By Scott Forbes. 2
Yoel's Green School Challenge. 2
“In Total Silence The Mind Comes Upon The Eternal”. 2
Lifesaver Insights 2
“Think of these things”. 2
K is NOT too difficult / & the curse of “Nobody Got It”. 2
Psychology of Cyberspace Groups 2
Foundations Should be Mindful of Possibility of Distortion. 2
Business of Rituals. 2
Destruction / Creation. 2
Is a K foundation “living it”?. 2
K in K schools. 2
Closure of a Stupid Saga. 2
Duncan Toms’ Meditations. 2
“Dialogue” Ritual 2
Death of “Dialogue”. 2
Video: With Ulrich Brugger, etc. 2
Video: Spontaneous Dialogue With A Hare-Krishna Devotee. 2
Video: With David Essel 2
Other Videos 2
Disseminating Confusion: R. Ravindra. 2
“Where and When to Think?”. 2
Aloneness vs. Loneliness: Effect on Dementia. 2
Kinfonet’s Interpretations / Distortions, again. 2
No End To Spiritual Exploitation by Gurus. 2
Patanjali Was Wrong. 2
“Essence of Life” Show.. 2
Dear Friends
These circulars have been averaging about once every year-and-a-half depending on many factors. I never plan on publishing another one but as material comes together one is born. I try to keep mailings to a minimum. However, if you wish to not receive further mailings kindly let me know through email of contact-us page of www.rezamusic.com.
The current issue is a min-issue as I’m trying to release it ASAP in order to get the word out about a friend who needs help with getting votes for his son so he can get a scholarship to an environmental school.
Older issues of these circulars can also be found on www.rezamusic.com (direct link to circulars section)
On the work related and unrelated to Jiddu Krishnamurti's work – 2013 (this document)
On the work related and unrelated to Jiddu Krishnamurti's work - 2012
On the work related and unrelated to Jiddu Krishnamurti's work – 2010
On the work around Jiddu Krishnamurti's work, etc., and On Swiss Summer Mountain Gathering - 2009
New articles and commentary related to interest in Jiddu Krishnamurti's work – Sep 2007
The "Fifth Foundation" -A look at an unofficial organization setup around K – July 2007
This and that from the “K World” & More - by Reza Ganjavi – Jan 2007
Please see the introduction section of past circulars (linked above) for my general attitude towards this subject. I am not a follower of J. Krishnamurti and don’t believe anything he says. I view his work as a set of pointers and challenges and have found him to be very intelligent, highly sensible, and passionately relevant to the challenges that face humanity today.
Writing being one of my passions, together with an interest in these subjects since an early age, and being a student of history and philosophy, I enjoy taking these snapshots.
Dr. Harshad Parekh and I met a long time ago and became good friends. I had the pleasure of doing a video interview with him followed by a discussion between the two of us, incidentally, addressing some of the subjects which are addressed in this circular. Two videos:
1) Discussion between Dr. Parekh and Reza Ganjavi
2) Interview with Dr. Parekh by R. Ganjavi
The best news I got in a long time was that Scott Forbes is publishing Mary Z's memoirs. I was told by a foundation that those memoirs would not be published for 50 years after her death -- another mistaken pronouncement -- why should people have access to it in 50 years and not now?
I reached out to Scott Forbes, an ex-trustee of KFT and someone I know was very close to both K and Mary Z, to ask if he likes to be video-interviewed -- and also to ask about Mary Z's memoirs.
I was hoping to get him to leak it before 50 years :-) And first thing he said was to talk about this monumental project. He's been publishing Mary's memoirs on the web and as a series. Mary spent more time with K than anyone in the last years of his life and may have been closer to him than anyone since his brother, who died in 1925. I immediately subscribed to the whole series (over 100 issues released weekly) and have found the diaries to be extremely interesting.
You can find more info by visiting www.inthepresenceofk.org
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/inthepresenceofkrishnamurti
Please help my dear friends Loic & Mary-Ann's son to win a scholarship by casting your vote for him. It's very easy. Just go to this website:
http://www.greenschool.org/greeneststudentonearth/view_essay/86.html
Enter your email address and click VOTE. No other info is required, They'll send you a verification email to click and confirm the vote.
Thanks so much on behalf of the wonderful Ridgway Lopez family.
NOTE FROM LOIC:
“My name is Loic Lopez and I am a good friend of Reza. My partner, Mary-Ann Ridgway, and I have been passionately interested in sustainability and education for the last twenty-five years. We met at Brockwood Park School as students in the late 80's and have been together ever since. After studying, traveling and working in various places around the world, we have finally settled back to Brockwood to work there and to further our understanding of Krishnamurti's teachings.
We have two children, Jonathan and Yoel, and since 1998 have been instrumental in establishing Inwoods Small School - the primary school at Brockwood Park. Both of our children have benefited from Inwoods' rich learning environment and growing community, and Jonathan is thoroughly enjoying his third year at Brockwood. Yoel, who is nearly twelve, is too old for Inwoods and too young for Brockwood. He is home-learning with me as he preferred to stay away form mainstream education.
Recently, Yoel and I heard of an opportunity to win a scholarship to attend the Green School in Bali for one year. Yoel definitely would like to go. I too would like to go to Bali. Firstly, because we feel that he is still too young to be boarding away from his family. And secondly, because I am interested in the possibility of setting up a Free School with a strong focus on ecological design, resilience and community building skills here in England and believe that I could learn a lot from this unique project. Our desire would be to plough back this learning and to make Brockwood an even greener place.
We cannot afford the fees for the Green School, but we think there is a good possibility of Yoel winning the scholarship. We have been told that "votes, likes and shares" will count for 1/3 of the decision and we need about 500 more votes within the next 10 days. We will know of the result on the 5th of June - on International Environment Day, which also happens to be Yoel's birthday!
Please take a moment to vote by visiting the following link:
Yoel's Green School Challenge (http://goo.gl/F3PaU)
Should you want to know more about Yoel, here is a link to learning journal he started earlier this month:
Y's APPLES ~ Fruitful Learning (http://ysapples.com)
And finally, if you believe that Yoel would make a good Green Student please help us spread the word and share with friends and family. We are grateful for having received so much support so far and hope that the magic of networking will continue.
Many thanks,
Loic”
7th Public Talk, Saanen, Switzerland, 22nd July, 1979
A very good video by J. Krishnamurti I came across covering some
very important topics related to psychological freedom.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7aLnJtZgyY
Some of the insights K had in his explorations – which each person can pursue themselves and see if they’re true or not and in which case they’re one’s owns insights not K’s or anybody else’s are very deep, crucial, important, what can I say, in some cases, life saving. I’m talking psychology. Stores are filled with self help books. Gurus charge thousands to give people freedom only to enslave them, and confusion is high which ultimately leads to highest rates of suicide in the world in some of the richest societies.
I have seen people’s lives change for the better – cries turn into laughter – sadness to joy – through flowering of insights. This is not K. That’s the beauty of it. It’s not a method – a dogma – anything to follow or believe. It’s life itself and being in tune – using tools that we are provided by nature, by God, by universe, by life itself, appropriately.
The mind learning thoughts insights so thought naturally does not go into where it doesn’t belong – our society and education and tradition over emphasizes thought.
By the same token it’s important to think in areas where thought was made for and part of misunderstanding of it is to become thoughtless which is also not good. Thought is not good or bad – it’s a tool and has its right use.
Just last night had discussions with a friend who’s had trouble with some psychological / relationship / job-related / social-related problem. Exploration into these subjects brought a radical change, an opening, an end to a long period of misery.
This stuff is highly practical. I use it in managing large projects at work. In arts. In relationships. In every aspect of life. “It” is not Krishnamurti. It is insight, learning. Krishnamurti was just one of many other people in my life who pointed at certain things which were worth exploring.
I found an old friend after many years recently. She used to work at the front desk in my gym and study at work all the time. I gave her TOTT back then. Years later, she’s a respected practicing psychiatrist and a Fellow at a leading university. She told me: “Think on these things” is still my favorite book!
I referred this favorite book to a young German woman – we met later and had deep talks -- she said she likes the book a lot although many other books she comes across with are “just rubbish”.
Another friend recently wrote: Love the book. Still reading... Studying and it's changing the way I look at life.... With lots of love and respect… I like this book that I am reading. Simple stuff but deep. U need to think.... Study as u said once;) Thanks
~~~~~~
TOTT is also the name of a relatively program by KFA which is one of the best things that’s happened to the foundation recently. It’s headed by Amanda Lezra. I met Amanda when she was a kid. Always smiling. With her mother they visited the Alps in the summer. Now she’s a grown up young lady who is still full of joy, and not only she’s wise, even as a young person she has a good grasp of K’s teachings.
In a meeting about the program there was a great interest among the public in the program itself and much discussion ensued – actually it wasn’t clear to me if the meeting was about the program itself or not but it turned that way and many people offered good ideas.
This subject is close to my heart as I’ve spoken to many young people about deeper subjects of living – and I recall when I was in early college years – thirsty for wisdom – and readily absorbed academics, as well as freelance studies, and K helped me a lot in getting straight A’s in Philosophy curriculum for example. One senior professor said he was envious how I could understand parts of Hegel that he couldn’t – it was due to K. Also in Iran, Rumi scholars say they understood Rumi better after reading K.
One key suggestion I made for the program was to be a bit more candid about sharing a K book – perhaps provide a download version of TOTT now that they’re going through the effort, time, and expense to reach out. Also the Executive Director of the foundation Jaap, is going to many of these sessions with Amanda. I think she can handle many of these on her own and the foundation could explore diversifying use of Jaap’s time into going to other locations at the same time or focusing on other things like answering emails :)
It’s also puzzling that on the agenda for Jaap is conducting dialogue in some SouthEast Asia countries while KFA’s name seems to be about America and there’s certainly a lot of work to be done in the foundation’s own backyard, as close as Ojai. I trust the trustees with this but couldn’t help but notice it as a student and practitioner of management science. If any of our friends want to comment on this I’d appreciate it.
Speaking about the KFA, Jaap initiated an interns program similar to Brockwood’s mature student program. I have spoken with a few of the interns. It certainly has pumped some new blood in Ojai’s East End.
I have written two articles titled “The Myth of Nobody Got It” (see past circulars referenced in the Preface section).
‘thank you for your precious circular About the "Nobody Got It" article. “I agree, this seems to be a very common occurrence in K dialogues. Your response, using the information you provided is the best response I've seen to this comment. I facilitate a monthy K dialogue in <>, and next time someone feels compelled to raise this issue, I'll share the information you provided. So, thanks’
I am calling it a “curse” after calling it a myth for so long. The main reason for it is “laziness” and when it’s echoed by a K foundation it negatively impacts their dissemination charter. Imagine how motivated a newcomer would be if he heard “this is too difficult, nobody understood it, and you either get all of it or none of it”. All those notions are false.
Krishnamurti poses some major challenges – is it possible to live without fear – is it possible to live without psychological images – and so on.
A common denominator of mankind is laziness. It’s deep rooted in traditions. And it’s highly abuse and capitalized on by people who say, no problem, give me power, give me money and position and authority, and I’ll do it for you.
When Krishnamurti dissolved the Order of the Star and told people they have to do the work themselves – that he’s not going to do it for them – they were deeply upset. The same momentum is happening today. For the last 20 or so years I’ve witnessed this myth called “nobody got it” infiltrate dialogues by uninformed or lazy or confused people time and again.
Refer to my past articles on this (see circulars linked at top of this document or google “myth of nobody got it”) for a more thorough explanation but in a nutshell this is an absolutely false notion and a misinterpretation of what K said for selfish lazy motives.
It is true that several people who were close to K didn’t get it and this is what he meant according to several people who were there when he said this towards the end of his life.
~~~~~~~~
In a presentation at a foundation, in one talk, a trustee referred to this notion three times – two times repeating what K said to a trustee meeting in the 70’s – and there’s no evidence whatsoever that he was not speaking about those trustees and not about humanity in general – and once the often repeated remarks he made towards the end of his life which according to several trustees it was about some of the people who were close to him. Mary Lutynes in her biographies sheds light on this (about warmth from the sun vs. burning by being too close to the sun, to use her words -- by being caught in the magnetism and persona. I believe this is case by case and there were several exceptions.
Add to the myth the notions that it’s difficult, and that it’s all-or-none, both of which are not true.
A close friend of Krishnamurti and an ex-Trustee of a foundation wrote recently:
“I agree that "K is too difficult" is totally false; but isn't it marvelous the way that conviction gets us all off the hook? If his teachings are too difficult for any of us to get, then we don't really have to try and work at it do we?”
~~~~~~~~~
One of the people close to him goes around giving talks – at least he’s humble enough to say he has no clue what K was talking about – but he projects that to others, which is false.
In a book presentation by an author and old time educator, he referred to the person mentioned above as follows:
“it’s not really clear that anybody understood what k talked about. – if it’s true, why bother”.
“why bother” is key (see notes above about laziness and wanting an excuse to discard the pointers.
Fact is, there are people – many people – who not only understood what K talked about but inquiry into some of those pointers and challenges, and application of those insights, deeply enriched their lives. So this whole notion that nobody understood K – nobody got it – that it’s difficult – and so on – is pure nonsense.
Here’s an article I put together rapidly in reaction to some insights around psychology of cyberspace groups. Most people have common sense but many don’t. Einstein thought human stupidity is infinite. Basic cyberspace etiquette should be a prerequisite in every high school.
http://home.datacomm.ch/rezamusic/Psychology_of_Cyberspace_Groups
I have a mild interest, from a historical standpoint, in what happens to the work of a great thinker after he dies. History has shown us that great teachings get distorted, misinterpreted, misappropriated, misused over time. In the case of Krishnamurti, what intensifies this interest is that he spent years warning against this – against organizations which are set up around these types of work, interpreters, abuses, and distortions. At least people who are in charge of the minimal organizations he intended his foundations to be, should be even more mindful of this subject.
In a recent meeting with some trustees several people voiced their concern over potential distortions. A couple of trustees were defensive, ruling out such possibility but the proof of this tendency is in the pudding: human history.
Any so called spiritual gathering quickly reveals that the human mind has a great interest in rituals because they’re entertaining and comfortable. Tradition is full of rituals. One event I recall which was a combination of yoga and “sacred” music, had plenty of rituals – repetition of phrases people didn’t understand the meaning of – fire ritual – turning around a circle – etc. etc. – and that non melodic chant of one branch of participants was so boring and without any musical value (and I doubt spiritual either), repeated for a whole hour.
Rituals have become a huge business in so called spiritual circles. Krishnamurti was not into rituals. He was much more of a realist. He once told a great yogi (paraphrasing) you can stand on your head for long periods but that won’t bring any enlightenment.
In yoga festivals for example, you can see plenty of exotic ways to try to change a person but without insight into what one is – into the structure of one’s own thinking which is the building blocks of the self – therefore, they’re futile.
A friend, Angela Jaggi just became a certified yoga instructor from a highly accredited line. She has also been deeply exposed to K’s points. She said all these mantras and breathings and meditation techniques only bring temporary change when there’s no fundamental understanding. Our approach is to totally expose what-is – K helped me see the power of this.
Deep breathing (pranayama) is great for health and strengthening the energy field – but do deep breathing all day and without insight, there is no change (I don’t want to call it liberation because that has an absolutist connotation). People start crying and sobbing in deep breathing sessions in some yoga retreats – and the so called teachers / leaders / who are more like voodoo artists try to hypnotize people with nice words – there’s laughing yoga and crying yoga and punk yoga and everything else under the sun called yoga. I heard of one yoga retreat where they shake and laugh 6 hours a day for 5 days. But the psychological self is still there and it’s still the slave and the salve master.
With insight into the structure of the self it can come to an end. And with psychological death, there’s birth of that other movement which is ever present, infinite, not of the dimensions of time & thought. As K pointed out, repetition only dulls the mind – dullness seems to be the way of tradition.
Krishnamurti shatters traditional spiritual thinking – in my opinion, he had to take a strong stance in order to get through the thick wall of humanity’s habit.
Fact remains that there’s great potential for many traditions (e.g. Vedanta and its many followers) who in essence are inclined towards the “otherness” to come together and benefit from the deep psychological insights of K.
Finding ways to bring together various ways which have so much in common is a nice idea. Perhaps that was the aim of Theosophy, but ultimately a “way” has to be open to destruction because ending of psychological self is essential in any discussion of freedom, which all “ways” preach about.
In a meeting with trustees of a foundation I pointed out that since the preservation aspect of the foundation’s charter is virtually done with the completion of the digitization project, currently the focus of the foundation is on dissemination and that as K pointed out the heart of disseminating anything is living it. A flower doesn’t go out speaking about perfume – it is perfume first and that perfume travels. If it has no perfume, talking about it is meaningless.
Another member of public expressed his observation that K’s perfume is somehow missing from the scene by visitor who come to that place. Of course this was confronted with fierce reaction from a couple of trustees that it can’t be, it’s not, in the country club there’s no mention of it, etc. – eventually, with openness from one trustee, they agreed to meet with the person and find out more.
One trustee asked: are we living it (referring to themselves). I remained quiet but if I had to answer – as she was looking at me when she asked that question of themselves, I would say, that question needs to be asked by each individual for themselves. Of course, they can’t answer it if they don’t know what ‘it’ is – in the case of some of the people who were very close to K, he said himself that they hadn’t understood him – things may have changed in the next 30 years after his death but unlikely if decades of being around him they missed the message.
It is impossible for someone to judge if another has got it but it is not difficult to see it when one does not live by some of the most basic challenges K points out. The foundation’s “persona”, an institutional ego, morphs out of the personal ego. Tribal thinking, divisive polarizing thinking, gossip, psychological image making, brutalities, power games, ambitions, and lack of regard for truth are things which are very opposed to K’s message. So if I had to be very frank, I would say, no, some of the people who were close to K aren’t living it – he seemed to think so too at least back then!
K was asked, what difference one person changing can make. He said, do it and find out! I believe there are people in the foundations who’ve drank from the fountain of wisdom and apply these profound challenges. But the shadow of those who were close to him who didn’t get it (according to K himself) has a negative impact on the foundation’s ability to “disseminate”.
I was told by a credible source that a foundation’s ex-director said one of the primary criteria for choosing trustees, is money. I know it’s not in every case but money should not be a primary factor. K had no money! And if money is so important a non profit should invest its money conservatively – and not waste it on lawyers when it can tap into an immense wisdom in its backyard on how to deal with problems: truthfully, philosophically – which means searching for truth – welcoming, and embracing truth.
There’s nothing wrong with having money but history has shown some rich trustees get caught in power position and politic. I would think a smaller board of people with real interest (regardless of their financial power) is better than a big board of directors – with some having deep pockets but not deep interest. KFT operates with a small board and it seems to work well according to an insider.
In a meeting with the public in a “meet the trustees” session, public were told this work is the most important thing for all the trustees. It sounds good but it’s hard to believe. Out of 12 or so trustees only 4 were there in the beginning – one more joined in later. More than half of the trustees were not there including two who were on campus that day and didn’t show up -- and this is the most important event of the foundation. This is just a fact – I am not complaining.
It’s also an art to retain good people once you have them – like retaining good customers vs. alienating them and trying to find new ones. The same mismanaged foundation alienated good people – including a good close trusted friend of K due to power play and ugly cunning politics. This is a fact. This is not K’s teachings and the same people involved can’t be expecting to do marvels at dissemination.
And in a recent gathering the message that came out of one trustee presentation was that “K is too difficult” “nobody got it” and it’s “all or none” which are all false and counter productive! K’s words can not be used as a sermon. He made that very clear. I will explore these topics in more depth in the next circular.
In a meeting with trustees of a foundation I asked how it is that while the schools in other regions have a contemplative hour called “culture class” or “inquiry time” or “K hour”, one school is void of any such direct exposures to the founder’s message.
Again, this was confronted by reactiveness and defensiveness by an ex-Director who said for little kids K said don’t talk to them directly about philosophy but they pick it up from the atmosphere, in dialogue, etc.
Maybe so for little kids but high school seniors can surely handle it and should be exposed to this precious set of challenges and pointers. One Director pointed out that the school has tried different things during different époques – but fact is, presently there’s nothing in backdrop of a busy schedule and I’m concerned this will set a trend and for years to come graduates of a K school will not have read a single book of his.
I finally heard back from a foundation after they looked into their own action for four months and couldn’t find any incident of wrongdoing on my part. I wrote them a final letter to stop and close this utterly stupid saga caused by a mindset (in including a couple of people who were close to the founder) which the founder spent a lifetime exploring and warning against!
These are documented in three sets of documents. They are all anonymized just because I am a nice guy :-) – I didn’t have to anonymize it because everything I provide as a fact is a fact. I have not lied about anyone, have not put anyone in false light, and have not invaded anyone’s privacy – I have simply exercised my right to speak freely and have done so factually, and my opinions are usually well-researched which doesn’t make them right but they’re formed in the spirit of philosophy which implies not settling with nonsense – digging – inquiring – and that’s also the scientific approach.
The key motivation for anonymizing (especially against search engines) them is because I believe some of the actions of these few people was a disgrace to K – there were a number of tweets flying around by entities unknown to me – right or wrong, the lesson is for people who are handling this precious work officially is to have respect for public regardless of donors or not or the amount of donation, and to reacquaint themselves with some common sense that people have the right to make comments about the work of the foundation. And the reaction of the foundation should not be attacking the person, trying to discredit her or him in order to discard the message, and other more extreme reactions. Krishnamurti as I knew him, would have never done that.
As a trustee put it “K was a public figure – the foundations are accountable to public”. Such a simple fact, and so easily forgotten at times by some people who think they’re in a position of privilege because of proximity with K.
It’s water under the bridge as far as I’m concerned and these the third document in this set closed the loop:
Duncan Toms who works at Brockwood Park, maintains a very interesting journal including account of his explorations of Vipassana Meditations. It can be found here: http://dtoms.com/
After K’s death, influenced by David Bohm’s proposals around dialogue, a foundation promoted dialogue as a key element of dissemination. Back then many people used to come to a foundation’s dialogues – perhaps 80 or so – and it dwindled down from there – the last webcast of a foundation sponsored dialogue I watched, a few months ago, had something like six paid participants.
Back then an old timer trustee used to criticize these circles for too much talk and not enough study. There are those who think study has no role in inquiry into these deep pointers and challenges, but I know it does. But study is not merely theoretical but also practical, which is choiceless – I don’t think there’s a choice when there’s insight – insight, is action (I am not quoting anybody – this is so, I’ve seen it first hand, and if K or anybody else happened to use the same language it’s because we have a limited set of words to work with).
It would be foolish to discard dialogue per se. Dialogue is important. But when it replaces study it becomes problematic, useless, and as one trustee put it: “the dialogues have become a bad psychotherapy”.
The constructive suggestion is, any foundation sponsored dialogues should be combined with study – not just to send a book to participants – but perhaps together, cover some of the material directly, instead of just coming in a room and having a go at it – unless everyone has taken the time to examine these subjects on their own first. I am of the belief that nothing – and no dialogue – could ever replace first hand exploration – and without that, talk till the end of the world and it will just be babble :-)
Some time ago I had a dialogue about dialogue with an insightful friend, which we captured on video. Some people were offended at what the friend said to the point that the friend asked me to remove the video. I tended to agree with what he had said on the video – he had said nothing insulting to anybody but I guess some people have made of dialogue a ritual, a dogma, a belief system, and any challenge to it becomes deeply disturbing. Reminds me of K telling somebody, if you’re hurt, something is wrong.
Being studious is a great quality, and I believe is necessarily for a deep grasp of any subject, including K’s pointers and challenges. Fact is, many are not studious. While formal education is not an indication of “real” education, I’ve noticed that people who have studied a subject deeply in a university for example, have an easier time grasping K – there are of course exceptions and this is not meant as a stereotype.
It’s much easier to assume things. It’s much easier to react without giving time and diligence to understand something.
Interestingly enough, the same person who was a keen promoter of dialogue a couple of decades ago, declared dialogue dead in a foundation sponsored event some time ago and attempted to rebrand it as “inquiry”, citing that [paraphrasing] “dialogue has become a formal process – the freedom of inquiry has been lost. And instead we substitute K’s language, philosophical language, and the latest popular research, the latest books, scientific, and so on, to guide us”.
To that I say
a) Dialogue should have never been made into a ritual to begin with
b) Anybody who understands / applies K’s challenges and pointers knows that a dialogue can be wonderful if parties involved have delved into / studied / explored the subject they’re dialoguing about . The only reason dialogue has become something unsuitable to a foundation, is because it wasn’t initiated on a good foundation to begin with and this was already pointed out 30 years ago – and this is directly related to it being driven by some of the people who were very close to K who hadn’t understood him (as K stated a couple of times).
What is the constructive approach? Insight is action. I do believe in handling extremely precious material sometime less is more. The core of dissemination is living it.
Specifically speaking, I am more concerned about what the K foundations do than what they do not do. In an extreme case of them doing nothing, the pointers and challenges have their own life, are available, and will live on and spread their own perfume, and through those whose lives have been enriched by this perfume. In doing things, the foundation has to be careful to not put undue reliance on some of the folks who were close to K.
I believe what is a disservice to K, is spreading confusion. He was very very clear.
Ulrich Brugger is originally Swiss and founded and runs a world-class retreat called the “Ojai Retreat”. An educator in heart, his vision of years ago to have an educational center, a university, is still alive. The predecessor of Ojai Retreat was called “Institute of higher education and dialogue”. He saw K speak many times.
Here’s a video of a discussion we had.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRJatm7zit4
Also see this funny video of Computergirl: The amazing 3 year old whose mother works at the Ojai Retreat
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuyZsZgceas
I met a Hare Krishna devotee and we decided to take our informal discussion to a video camera. Here’s our dialogue.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULdO_f6u--o
“I think this is a wonderful video where two men with different philosophical backgrounds but a burning interest in the same eternal questions look into where they might have a meeting ground. There is a fantastic sense of patience, clarification, high quality of attention and deep listening and open-mindedness. This slow but open-minded search for a common ground is exactly what the world needs to see more of today. I hope to see Halayudha and Reza continue these discussions.”
“I like the way it unfolded with a good amount of mutual respect for each other, staying on topic, patience, etc. Very good stuff…”
David is a delight – he’s one of the few people who always has something insightful to say with a wonderful cheer and smile. In his 90’s, David is a true inspiration. I saw him driving the other day, with a smile, of course.
Rezangela Music Videos:
http://rezangela.yolasite.com/videos.php
Discussion with Mr. J. Todd Stoutenborough, my first yoga teacher:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZieP60HhSc
Dr. James L. Christian's Eulogy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUh3Uu9yNQ0
Stream Garden Retreat Center near Hat Yai in southern Thailand, English version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi3YUFtnf74
This got too long so spawned it into its own document.
Ravi didn’t understand K. He admits it and it’s obvious in what he says. Yet he was asked to speak at the KFA; and was also quoted by an author as authority which only furthered confusion.
The matter discussed in this document together with examples, and letters:
http://home.datacomm.ch/rezamusic/ravi_ravindra.html#RR
Writer, and mental health counselor, Kevin FitzMaurice, who has a deep interest in the work of K wrote the following paragraph for this circular:
“J. Krishnamurti often explored the problem of thought interfering with and taking over life. Krishnamurti also talked about thought having its right time and place. Let me offer some insight into understanding one time and place where thought should not be allowed.
Thought has no capability to sense, perceive, or even to think. Thought is a result, not a cause. One of the consequences of these facts is that thought cannot experience. And since thought cannot experience, then thought cannot come into contact with life, have a relationship with life, or discover truth.
Thought cannot see you. Thought cannot experience you. Thought cannot capture you to kill you as some thought, image, or thing. Thought cannot make you become a thought. Thought cannot transform you over time from being one thought into being another thought.
Any thought about who and what you are will never be who and what you are. Your thinking about who and what you are is not you. Your thinking abut who and what others are is not them. Your thinking about what your life is, is not your life. Therefore, all your self-talk is nonsense that is about no one and nothing. Your self-talk is maya, illusion, dream, delusion, fog, cloud, wall, ego, self-esteem, pride, shame, and the block that is in-between you and reality. It is your self-talk that prevents you from rediscovering and recontacting reality with the singleness, seriousness, and selflessness of a little child.
Self-talk is one of the wrong times and places for thought. Negate your self-talk.”
Copyright © 2013 by Kevin Everett FitzMaurice, M.S.
“People who feel lonely may have an increased risk of developing dementia — whether or not they are married or have social support, according to a new study from the Netherlands… The fact that ‘feeling lonely’ rather than ‘being alone’ was associated with dementia onset suggests that it is not the objective situation, but rather the perceived absence of social attachments that increases the risk of cognitive decline…"
It seems that almost every circular has something about Kinfonet, whether it’s interpretation or … (see Preface section for links to last issues) – I don’t plan it that way but it comes together like this: This time around: Their main page was quoting K from 1926, Ommen Campfire Talks 2. K explicitly asked that his teachings prior to 1933 to not be referenced because it wasn’t matured.
I have another case of their interpretation / distortion of K – but I’m tired of pointing these out and they keep doing it. It’s a pity. I first time went public with this in 2007 – it had some effect – but the illusion, dilution, and dilution engine goes on:
The "Fifth Foundation" -A look at an unofficial organization setup around K – July 2007
Always something new – this time, full page ad in the paper about a guy who is supposed to liberate people through gazing at them :-) a chap from Croatia. And people fall for that !! Hugging gazing etc – next we’ll know a so called Saint who’ll market themselves as “Get smiled at and find Samadhi” – 50 bucks a smile (LOL).
Another one is another obese Guru – I’m not mentioning their name so as to not give them publicity. Sri Sri Sri something-ji.
Another one, also from Eastern Europe, has a small ashram in Switzerland and a group of devotees – I went to their open day once – and was freaked when they turned off the lights and started worshipping him. I took off as soon as I could find a ride to get down from that mountain. The singing is nice but that’s just about it.
One of his followers told me that he likes K a lot – and she likes K too. But where is it? How can you claim to like K or be inspired by his teachings and be a guru???
Ok, I listened to some of his talks and saw only superficial reference to anything remotely resembling to inspiration by K. But that is very common. You can go to a well – take a drop of water – and say I drank from the well. What this Guru talked about was in fact very contrary to post modern cutting edge cut-through-the-nonsense psychology that I understood K speak about.
Helped a friend with a paper on Patanjali Yoga Sutras so had a chance to read those again after many years. It's a subject not usually discussed so it's not uninteresting but Patanjali was wrong on many things. His approach is very traditional of course and implies the existence of the "I" and duality and control etc. -- so the samadhi he wants to achieve through ignoring thought's preoccupations is artificial. J. Krishnamurti puts all that in a very bright light by pointing out certain facts which shatter that entire Yoga philosophy.
A friend, Sriram wrote the following:
“Essence of Life is a revolution in music and dance inspired by Jiddu Krishnamurti's teachings. It is a multi-media production, an effort across many media through the evocative medium of Indian classical dance. Prominent artists from established dance traditions, namely Kathak, Bharatnatyam, Kuchipudi, Mohiniattam and Odissi come together to bring to life contemporary thought in an engaging manner.
The program took 2yrs with 25 persons around the world.”
More info on: www.degaarts.com