On the work related (and unrelated) to the work to J. Krishnamurti, March 2014, by Reza Ganjavi
"As a historian, the world's insane condition is not exactly new; but it gets into our homes and psyches in an intimate way as never before. I turn on the TV and the floodgates open to idiocy, stupidity, small mindedness, arrogance, and blindness. None of this is new but the impact is intolerable". Dr. Jim Christian, author, my first philosophy professor
“K is a giant. The longer I live the more I come to see that. And how pitiful that some of those around him who totally missed the boat are now engaged in diluting his message with tradition.” RG
On the work related (and unrelated) to the work to J. Krishnamurti, March 2014, by Reza Ganjavi
Your comments are most welcome. Reza Ganjavi can be contacted via email: (info – at – rezamusic – dot – com). For further information about RG’s work, please see: www.rezamusic.com
TABLE OF CONTENTS
Previous Issues. 3
New Videos. 3
Interviews / Dialogues. 3
Talks By Reza Ganjavi in English. 4
Talks By Reza Ganjavi in Persian. 4
Experiential Metaphysics : The Immensity. 4
“Most Profound Modern Thinker” 5
Would K Have Dissolved The KFA?. 6
Review of Mark Lee’s Talk. 6
Modern Philosophy. 8
Book Review.. 9
London Underground Posters. 11
K in K Schools (again) 11
Inquiry Sunday. 12
Erich Schiffmann: Think on These Things. 12
Gathering For The Young. 13
Well of Wisdom.. 13
Quote by a Young Person. 13
Mysteries Abound. 13
Miscellaneous Notes. 14
Passion For Education. 14
Trap of Organization. 14
Corruption of Buddha’s Work. 15
Passion for Education. 16
Trap of Dialogue About Dialogue. 16
Victoria Boutenko’s Selection of K Quotes, Green Smoothie Retreat 17
The Self Market 17
Byron Katie. 18
Eckhart Tolle. 19
Helen Nearing’s Book. 20
Book Covers. 21
New Book. 21
Aspiring Guru & Dilution. 21
Crop Circles are Hoax. 22
Radha Burnier 23
Krishnamurti is not a leader and I am not a follower of his. I met him around 15 times in the last 3 years of his life and read many of his books. Of all the philosophers of West and East I studied academically and personally, I found him to be a one of the most brilliant with a genuine interest to help humanity. He does not propose a new path, system, method, dogma, technique, or anything to believe or follow. He simply asks a lot of great questions and puts forth important challenges and pointers which I’ve found to be worth investigating.
These circulars are my personal notes and impressions around what goes on around his work – after he’s died. I always take history into perspective.
I am not a leader either and want no followers of any sort, but always welcome new friends.
This might be the last circular I write on this topic… never know… I have given a number of talks and lots of smaller discussions, and continue to adjust the delivery based on perceived need. Right now I feel a need for a book – working title “book of love” – to summarize the key messages I’ve learned from life… A very rough outline is linked at the top of my online journal: www.rezajournal.com
Older issues of these circulars can also be found on www.rezamusic.com (direct link to circulars section)
Amazing 93 year old friend.
This video was taken a few months before Tom passed away. See the end of this document for some feedback about the interview…
Talks By Reza Ganjavi in English Talks By Reza Ganjavi in Persian
An oldie but goodie: “Is there anything sacred in life?” www.jkrishnamurti.org/krishnamurti-teachings/view-video/is-there-anything-sacred-in-life-full-version.php
Lots of other videos I produced including talks with smokers, etc. are on www.rezatv.com
Experiential Metaphysics : The Immensity
18 March 2014 - The immensity
As the sun went down from its peak, and workers got off work after a hard long day of construction work, a sacredness filled the air and penetrated the being. It lasted throughout the flight -- in the airport among the busiest of announcement PA's I've ever seen -- annd in the flight. The third eye bursting with intensity -- the brain utterly quiet -- and an intensity which nothing could disturb.
Thought could naturally be quiet because the practical aspects of life was in order so there was nothing for thought to do -- of course there are things to do -- many things -- but there is no disorder and that immeasurable immensity itself made thought very quiet.
The otherness is intense
The otherness IS intensity
People who do drugs and alcohol effect the brain to tune into that intensity
But the tool gets damaged - the biology gets out of balance -- and while a glimps of the otherness might be possible because of the sad state of the being it doesn't go far -- take the example of caffeine for example, which is so cherished as "normal" way of being by corrupt traditions -- but caffeine is a toxin and in most cases even "normal" consumption leads to the body / nervous system losing their state of peace, and get stressed -- stress is a state of discomfort -- comfort is necessary for peace -- brain can only be totally quiet when the organism is in peace, comfort. Of course people "get used" to drugs after regular consumption but what that really means is, getting dull, less sensitive, more stressed, less comfortable, less peaceful, etc., at least biologically, and the brain is physical!
To perceive the otherness the biology has to be in tune and balanced in every way including blood sugar etc -- but that is not enough.
The window needs to be open for the breeze to come -- and the room put to order.
Any sense of self / activity of thought -- however cherished by the corrupt tradition of mankind which has made this mess we're living in with endless wars and irresponsible destruction of nature -- has to come to an end, naturally and not by force. That is the cleaning of the room andopening of the window.
That intensity can be perceived, tuned into, naturally when there's order and thought has ended its need to be active
When thought naturally gets quiet - other centers in brain get active which allow the being to perceive the otherness which is pure intensity.
“Most Profound Modern Thinker”
Dr. Theodore Kneupper, one of the philosophy professors who takes interest in the work of Krishnamurti said the following in a video interview (paraphrased). He recalls meeting K and had a similar experience as I did when I met him.
called David Bohm “one of the most profound physicists of the century. He went much further than Einstein, Heizenberg, etc. Most other physicists at the end of their career say “we don’t know what the hell it means – we know it works but don’t ask me what it means. Bohm is one of the few people who tried to make sense out of what modern physics is saying…”. He came across a K book (Awakening of Intelligence) in a bookstore and paged through it and saw K saying the known and the knower are one… a theme K talked frequently about that you are one with what you know – there’s no difference between you and what you know. Bohm thought this is what I’ve come to realize in physics, and he sought K to talk with him. They became very good friends till death… More on this in Youtube video called “Outer Streams Jiddu Krishnamurti, part 5 of 6” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGxbaMO_0YA
"I cannot think of a more important thinker in this century than J.Krishnamurti. While Whitehead, Wittgenstein, Heidegger, and Sartre in the West, and Radhakrishnan, Aurobindo, Suzuki, and Fung in the East have all given us very important analyses and syntheses that continue to shed light upon the important issues of the day, there is none, in my estimation, who has penetrated those issues with such depth and simplicity of language as Krishnamurti. His thought will remain a most important source for insight relating to both the intellectual understanding and practical solution of the most important philosophical questions that mankind is facing in this era."
Dr. Ted Kneupper Professor Emeritus of Philosophy at Slippery Rock University of Pennsylvania.
Would K Have Dissolved The KFA?
Please see document home.datacomm.ch/rezamusic/k_kfa_2014.html
Review of Mark Lee’s Talk
Recently, Mark Lee, the previous Executive Director of KFA (before Jaap Sluijter who’s the current executive director), and trustee of both KFA and KFI, gave a talk at the Study Centre in Bangalore. It was somewhat disappointing to hear him say some of the things he said, but not surprising – such focus on the person with little time spent on the teachings. It again reminded me of Mary Lutyens’ line about some of the people who were close to K (see below) – it doesn’t have to be that way and I believe it entirely depends on the person – I’m sure some of the people who were close to K did not “burn” – I know a few. Anyway, Mark said he wasn’t a friend of K but an associate, and how close he was to him is irrelevant.
The impression that I got hearing him was “where is the teachings” ? The focus is repeatedly on the person, his way of being, and very troublingly, a movement of idolizing K as some kind of a super species. This is a dangerous line of thought because while K was extraordinary in many ways, to portray him as something so different than or superior to “us” as Mark puts it, puts K on a pedestal, which is contrary to K’s own message as I understood it and inhibits the understanding of what he pointed to by putting the focus on the man vs. the message, something K warned about extensively, and in fact this may be the very reason for those who spent a lot of time with K but it all went over their heads because they focused too much on the person – if Mark was one of them or not, is not my call.
The psychological impact of that line of thinking (implicit idolizing by putting him on a pedestal) is interesting. It could relieve a person from having to face the challenges K puts forth by thinking, oh, K was a super man, he was privileged, he didn’t have to work for a living, and all such nonsense I’ve heard over the years which people say, which I believe is just a justification for not wanting to take on the challenges which are intense, powerful, and disturbing to status quo.
Fact of the matter is, each person can investigate deeper questions of life and find truth. Each person can also come upon the ground, the movement which is beyond time and thought by ending the movement of the self, time, thought. This was not something exclusive to K or any elite group.
For example. Mark said, “There were things about him that made him different from the rest of us. He was a person who didn't use memory the same way we use memory.”
I find this mentality of “him vs. us” – especially the “us” part, is problematic, especially coming from a trustee. Of course he is free to express his opinions and beliefs but they don’t make sense. There is no “us” vs. K. It’s about each person. And the “us” are not all in the same boat – there are many who are suffering from being caught in their own self-made psychological prisons – and others who find the true meaning and root of freedom. I find this “us vs. K” a mediocre idea, and right along the traditions of idol making.
The other side of the coin of putting an idol on a pedestal is shooting him down – the kind of things that Ravi Ravindra did in his awful book “two birds on one tree” which IMO only points out the fragmentation and lack of unity in the author’s mind (see above for link to document about KFA and Ravi’s talk there).
Mark made it such a big deal that K lived without craving! Wow! How extraordinary! Well the fact is, some of “us” :) have taken on those challenges and brought an end to craving which at the root of it is psychological. Whether the body gets hungry or not or a person asks for food or juice or water or not is nothing noble – what is very noble in this world of desires and superficiality, is to end psychological craving which has a big part in psychosomatic craving which for example many smokers feel.
“He wasn't concerned about food, certainly not the way we are” – again, by “we” maybe he’s referring to 1/3 of Americans who are obese or 2/3 who are overweight because there are many who are not part of that “we” Mark likes to project. There are many who enjoy food but don’t eat it to quench some psychological shortcoming or craving or to find happiness or remove anxiety.
In minute 23:47 he says something that totally discards Michael Mendizza’s argument that the teachings are all-or--none. Mark said K told him to understand a little part of the teachings you understand all of it. I don’t believe this just as I don’t believe the idea that it’s all-or-none. Perhaps K said this to Mark to encourage him to understand a little part of it?!
Mark’s notion of “discipline” also made me wonder, did he understand what K said about the subject? K talked many many times about discipline meaning learning – as related to the word disciple. To Mark discipline was K saying he liked uncomfortable chairs because they keep him awake!
Mark talked about a question he asked K – which I think is a totally senseless question – i.e., did anybody understand you? What does this say? It says, the questioner obviously hadn’t understood K otherwise he wouldn’t ask K has someone understood you because if he had understood K he would know that there is at least one person so he wouldn’t ask the question.
Poor K! It’s really sad, I believe, for a person to go around for 65 years and then some people around him don’t understand him. Anyway, K said, ya, maybe Dr. Anderson. But I know as a matter of fact there are many many many who have understood K and not just a little bit but a lot! And the challenges he poses and discovery of what the pointers point to have turned their lives upset down.
What’s disturbing, is, if Mary Lutyens is right, then is it surprising that the foundations turn up like what we’re witnessing with KFA (see section above), since some of the same people are running them.
On that note, Mark confirmed what I already had found out, that K’s highly quoted statement in his last days about nobody having understood him was explicitly directed towards people around him. (See “Myth of Nobody Got It” in my past circulars – see this document’s header).
Minute 50 – paraphrasing “We were standing there - 7 of us - meeting about something - K was in bed - he looked at us and said noone has understood him – we were certain - we confirmed afterwards - that he was talking about us - not humanity but us."
Here’s a fun one. According to Mark in 1966 they taped Oak Grove talks for the first time, on tape, then loaded the tapes onto a bomber plane, flew it to East Coast and beamed down to high schools’ sociology classes etc. – What an amazing technology in 1966 !!
I believe Mark misinterprets K (K warned about interpreters for a long long time) by saying K didn’t bring examples. That is flat out untrue. K brought many examples in his talks – like jealousy, anger, etc. etc. but if someone didn’t understand him, these things must have been taken literally. The process K was describing about jealousy or anger hold true in many many more areas and those were examples. That’s just one example!
Here’s another disturbing statement coming out of a Trustee of two of foundations: “I feel that all of Krishnamurti is esoteric. 100M words is esoteric.”
ESOTERIC?! 100 million words of K are esoteric. Poor K!!
He didn’t stop there – he went on to say, that since K didn’t talk about reincarnation, karma, and extra terrestrials, it doesn’t mean they were not part of the teachings – they were (minute 1:04:58)
Great! So extra terrestrials were also part of K’s teachings!
I believe this is reckless interpretation, dilution, and raises bigger questions about the foundations – actually not question because the facts are pretty clear. As K said you are the world and the world is you!
Dr. Thomas Metzinger who teaches philosophy at the Mainz University in Germany, visited the Swiss gathering last year. It was good that he was there as he brought new ideas, and fresh perspectives to the gathering. Here are a few notes and impressions / opinions based on the talk/Q&A session he held, and the dialogue group we both were in.
- He discussed a number of fields of science where these bigger questions are being asked. Some of the insights obtained from these disciplines are interesting, however limited. I respect true science (vs. esoterics for example) a great deal, however, scientific method is limited and especially so when it comes to the study of the human psyche.
- He spoke of interesting research done in the field of “Mind Wondering” and the “Default Mode Network” (DMN). Discussion around control, autonomy, autonomous process, creative incubation (insight), l.t.memory encoding, internal probing, self deception, optimism bias, depressive realism, phenomenology of identification, etc.
- Of course K sheds a lot of light in this field but probably most of the researchers and the subjects were not exposed to it. The concepts such as total awareness of one’s inner state which would include the DMN; emptying of consciousness of its content, which would include the DMN; the whole subject of order and natural quietness; controller being the controlled; and that immense movement which is beyond time and thought…
- The hypothesis some of this research makes could greatly benefit from K’s insights… concepts like is there a function to mind wondering.
Scanning my notes, here’s a great line from the professor: “Lying to yourself makes you a more effective aggressor” which sheds a lot of light onto behavior or cyber bullies. Reminds me of this passage from The Brothers Karamazov:
“Above all, do not lie to yourself. A man who lies to himself and listens to his own lie comes to a point where he does not discern any truth either in himself or anywhere around him, and thus falls into disrespect towards himself and others. Not respecting anyone, he ceases to love, and having no love, he gives himself up to the passions and coarse pleasures, in order to occupy and amuse himself, and in his vices reaches complete bestiality, and it all comes from lying continually to others and to himself.”
- It occurred to me that had the researchers, including the good professor, delved deeply into what K points to experientially, the research would have been more interesting…
Writing this I took a detour into the cultural aspect, because so much of Western philosophy is missing the important mystical intuition.
…set of pointers and challenges, some of which are grasped easier by some than others, and some cultures than others, as K himself mentioned. Why is that? I believe, having traveled to almost 70 countries, a number of factors are involved in this such as degree in which the minds have historically involved themselves in such questions, role and place of love vs. thought, etc. etc. – like we see in heavily thought dominated societies there’s more unhappiness despite riches).
- Furthermore, the whole field of philosophy has unfortunately caught the specialization epidemic. A philosophy student I met at the University of Santiago de Compostela who was familiar with K had this to say about the subject (video titled: “What’s wrong with mainstream philosophy”: www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQIFg_hHqgE ). “Wisdom” in “love of wisdom” which is the meaning of philosophy, is being replaced by “knowledge” which has an entirely different dimension.
- Ancient philosophers employed mysticism to a great deal in their inquiry – as Krishnamurti and Steiner and a few others have attempted to do in the modern age. I find K to be particularly profound, deep, and clear – but he’s not a specialist or a theoretician. His work is extremely practical and can not be grasped from an experiential aspect,
- The professor maintains that Sheldrake is nonsense. I pointed out, not to defend Sheldrake, that history of philosophy has had much worse nonsense – and fame of a modern thinker is not a criteria as many great people in history were not famous during their lifetimes.
Here’s an interesting essay by Dr. Mentzinger “Spirituality and Intellectual Honesty”:
Review of “The Last Guru - by Patrick Foster” by Reza Ganjavi
I know Patrick and have respect for him. Came upon his book "The Last Guru" and tried to read it. Went through the book but from the first page it was evident something fundamental was missing. By the end it became clear what: the author missed a very key element of what Krishnamurti was about.
It's a fair question to ask whether K was guru despite him saying repeatedly he was not - I've asked this question many times myself given the timing of his presence which coincided with popularity of guru-dom. Nevertheless, having met K in person and having examined the question deeply, it is clear to me that he offered some pointers and challenges which are highly unique in modern times - we'd have to go back many years to find this level of depth. In Iran, Rumi scholars are saying they understood parts of Rumi which were not understandable after they read Krishnamurti.
I have a degree in philosophy and have studied many authors and great thinkers' works. I could understand Hegel much better having read K - something even my own philosophy professor said he envied.
I have also read about 80 books by Krishnamurti. I am not his follower. To be a follower of a man who spent a life time inquiring into truth is a disgrace to say the least - but that's not why I'm not a follower.
Krishnamurti is a set of pointers and challenges. He is not important. Patrick is caught on the person - the person is not important. If I say I saw a flower down the road and smelled it and it enriched my life, you can go smell it if you want - I'm not important. If you do - you've had a first hand experience.
Many of what K talks about is meaningless without that first hand experience and Patrick seems to have missed what the pointer is pointing to and instead is caught on analyzing why the pointer can't possibly be pointing to a flower, or anything.
He does give some value to some of K's explorations but I found myself regularly smiling while reading the book because the subject had gone over Patrick's head completely :)
I'm not sure which followers he's talking about. I don't know many "followers". Krishnamurti didn't have a cult - not just that he didn't want followers, he adamantly refused to be followed.
Some of the organizations set up around him (which were set up out of utter necessity, which he dreaded, wanted to dissolve, called idiotic) are diluting his work. Yet his works are published and hopefully will remain unadulterated.
His work is clear to a diligent student who experiments with the pointers and challenges he poses and that exploration opens so many doors, psychologically, and in daily life, while Patrick is trying to figure out what was K's image of himself. Don't be surprised if you don't find it Patrick - because it didn't exist as far as I can tell. Find out if you can live without an image of yourself. If so, this will be more meaningful.
Patrick insists of K having been a guru. K spent 65 years talking against the whole business of gurudom. You can insist all you want but K was not a guru to me as a guy who met him and read many of his books. If you don't know what Guru means, go to Yogananda's retreat and talk to his followers! It's a disgrace to call K a guru yet Patrick insists on it. So be it :)
I tried hard - because I am not closed minded - to take this book seriously but I couldn't. There are too many logical inconsistencies arising from the author's lack of understanding of Krishnamurti.
What is important is for each person to examine key questions of life for themselves. K is to be challenged so in that spirit, I appreciate Patrick's attempt -- it seems he had some insights but how they developed and articulated doesn't make this book that valuable, in all due respect to the author whom I know love and respect.
London Underground Posters
KFT made a bold move by promoting profound philosophical sayings of K through massive posters in London Underground, for which I admire them and think it’s a great idea. I sent in some suggestions for saying for the future as K has so many great quotes which are universally applicable and directly resonate with the average metro traveler who is probably thinking about areas thought was not meant for, suffering in some way, etc., which is not sectarian.
For example, “truth is a pathless land” while profound and true, doesn’t mean much to average Jane/Joe, doesn’t provide a challenge or point to any profound wisdom other than possibly coming across as “oh this is another path which is about no path”. Keep in mind the background which is all about division – a million and a half parties are trying to say their way is the right way – of course K doesn’t provide a way, method. system, belief, anything to follow, etc. but the first encounter is likely to be met with that conditioning… Regardless, this advertising is a great opportunity to put ginger in people’s minds, as K was quoted as saying by someone I know.
They also selected some great passages. So, kudus to KFT. More info here:
“Yes K schools need to show the kids more of what K was about. When he was alive he would speak there -- so showing videos only makes sense -- or studying what he had to say -- it's so easy that he just becomes a name in the distant past if his immense work is not actively discussed.” A Trustee.
In my last circular I wrote about this subject (link). Since then had this communication with a trustee who was close to K:
I wrote: “X said K said don't talk about these deeper subjects to kids (as an excuse why K is absent in OGS).
Is this true?
When did he say that?”
The response I got was: “oh no! This is stupid, and a lie.”
Another response from trustee who was very close to K was “I never heard that from K. This is now in the realm of hearsay and, as such, I would tend to discount it.”
I think the proof is in the pudding: there are many videos of K talking with little kids about deep subjects (e.g. Rishi Valley 1985 talking about image making, fear, etc.).
My own experience has been that little kids do understand a lot more than we imagine them to.
Anyway, I don’t think it’s a problem not talking about these deeper questions to little kids – but when I meet 17 year old graduates of the K school in USA who’ve not read a single book by him, and who hadn’t a single class or hour dedicated in their busy curriculum to discuss these deeper questions, I wonder!
Teaching it through the ambiance doesn’t cut it, IMO. It’s a shame to be so close to this and yet so far away – as one ex-trustee put it, they sometimes are ashamed to use K’s name. I understand it’s not good to get caught in the persona but that’s a far away danger and definitely not a risk. How can there be time for a rock music class in the US school and not time for an inquiry hour?
See here for more discussion on the subject including an important view of a trustee who is a long term educator.
As for what K said and not said, we have to be careful about this as human history is full of cases of people setting themselves up to be spokesperson for a great thinker while they were not even that close to him when he was alive. So I take everything that’s well documented as facts, and the rest, with a grain of salt.
To say it’s transmitted through the “atmosphere” is the easy way out and an excuse to ignore the subject – of course the atmosphere is important but it’d be a disgrace to not discuss the great work of the founder and make him eventually become just a name and rely on the atmosphere to produce miracles!
This kind of thing, again, reminds me of the Mary Lutyens statement about burning by being too close to the sun… if people (including those around him or those who portray themselves as having been close to him) have explored the tremendous challenges and pointers that K then they would be able to live and talk and breath that immensity which this great work points to, and would want that to be at least mentioned to their children, in their school.
Picked this up from a website:
“The Sunday afternoon session began with a video of two people, Dr. Harshad Parekh and Reza Ganjavi, who have had a long time interest in Krishnamurti holding a dialogue together. The conversation was quite far ranging and included such issues as the ease or difficulty of understanding K's teachings, what is meant by freedom from fear and conflict, what it means to live the teachings in daily life, and the extent to which K himself actually lived what he was talking about. It seemed that the video was very provocative and aroused some strong responses in the eight participants, leading to some valuable insights or at least questions to be with.”
The video referenced is this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1fFp_sQNdg
Erich Schiffmann: Think on These Things
In an interview with a yoga magazine Erich Schiffmann, an ex-Brockwood Park student, and one of the most successful yoga masters of our time, speaks about Krishnamurti’s book “Think on These Things”:
“I remember thinking it was the best book I’d ever read. I didn’t read anything except Krishnamurti after that for the next few years. “
K advised Erich to study with his yoga teacher Desikachar. (reminder: K only did yoga for bodily health).
Erich later asked Joel Kramer, a self-taught yogi in the 1960’s for a lesson. Kramer’s had just one request: “A personal introduction to Krishnamurti.” Erich agreed.
I took a group lesson with Erich but he agreed to give me a private lesson.
I learned some of the exercises that K did from someone K personally taught.
Visited the young people gathering in Switzerland – years ago we started this nice gathering but I hadn’t gone for some years. It was great to meet some folks who were thirsty and were drinking at the well of wisdom.
Talking about the well of wisdom, I remember my college days when I started formal studies in philosophy – I could smell the well of wisdom – and viewed an essential part of education as drinking from that well and being able to carry the water. i.e., discourse about it and share it. Over the years came to see many minds and lives get healed through drinking the waters of wisdom, insight, understanding, and philosophy (love of wisdom).
Krishnamurti was one of my many teachers and I sure have learned a lot from him.
I came across a K book in a bookstore. Opened it and started reading. It was the first time in my life that I could read something which addressed the deep questions that were on my mind. I read the book there till the shop’s closing, bought it, and read several other books later too.
I went to a dialogue in the big city but it seemed superficial and more like tea time and socialization – so I didn’t go any more.
Last night every one quiet after an improvisation sessions with voice and various instruments – suddenly one note was played – nobody touched the keyboard. I think it was an angel. What else could it have been?
Once in the kitchen in Brockwood a student pointed and said to K he sees an angel. K acknowledged saying (shush) meaning “I see it too – be quiet about it”.
Mysteries are abound… many stories to tell… but the important thing is that other movement which has been downplayed by education… so people grow to become thinking machines instead of in tune with that otherness, which is love.
In this little mountain village church bells are played manually. On the last day, theme from Beethoven’s Symphony 9 was being played by the church’s unimposing, sweet sounding bells – unlike in the German part where the church bells are heavy strong extremely loud annoying and go at all odd hours to the point that some Swiss people have sued a church about it.
Saw on a video, K made a mistake saying Arabic script goes from left to right (it goes from right to left).
Image prevents extraordinary flowing of love.
Image making is an act of laziness.
leisure means not to be occupied. It's only then we can learn - by watching - when the mind is empty - it's important to have leisure - not to be always obliged, occupied - that also becomes an escape - it gives some security - many people are nervous about being nothing - empty - quiet - which is very powerful because only with that quietness and space we can observe and learn........
Role of method is in making a cake and not in ending of fear.
K’s passion for education is very touching. I was recently watching the discussions he had with parents and teachers in 1977 in Ojai and he spends a long time going through the importance of raising kids who have no fear – who are free to observe and learn – and discussed many related important topics like … love!
As I was walking away, two French speaking ladies complemented the singing away.
A friend involved in the official work for many years wrote:
“I always enjoy your writings. You are one of the few sane people in this rather strange K world. I wonder why some people can move so far away from everything K stood for. They listen for years to his words and they take part in meetings and discussions, but they never really look at themselves in an honest way (although they talk a lot about it!). This, unfortunately, seems to be a widespread phenomenon among many so-called spiritual people.”
“I liked your remark: 'I can't rely on psychic powers to read people's minds' :-)
With regard to M … he came across as a man with some temperament, and of course I know you as a thoroughly calm and rational person.
Apart from that, you are raising quite a few quite important points, like the emphasis apparently given by the foundations to the fact of someone having been close to K in order to qualify for certain positions within the foundations or committees. This, of course, is a ridiculous criterion, which, apart from contradicting the non-sectarian and non-esoteric core of the teachings themselves, is completely irrelevant in an area where only solid qualifications should count.
Along the same lines, I find that feedback or comments on the work of the foundations must come from people who are not directly affiliated with the foundations or employed by them. Provided they are listening, this will ensure a democratic development of the foundations, free of nepotism and hidden agendas.”
“What has personally struck me most is the tendency of many K oldies to tell you that 'nobody has understood K'. It seems to be so important to some of those people that no one has understood that it has almost become a religious dogma. I think this may go back to K himself as he often expressed a concern that he was talking to himself, and that no one was really listening seriously or getting the point. Because of this, and an undue respect for 'the master', it has almost become a mortal sin or sacrilege to frankly tell people within this community that K is quite easy to understand, and that you actually know what he is talking about. As I said in my previous mail, when I first read him, and that was just a few lines in a book, I was so overwhelmed by how true his words were, and how I felt they spoke directly to me, and I since then I have been somewhat puzzled when people kept saying that he is impossible to understand.
I think there is another reason for this 'dogma', besides the fact that K said something along those lines himself, and it is the fact that it makes the teachings more 'esoteric'. They are not for everyone, and they require years and years of studying and analysis, and, of course, endless dialogues. And in the end you don't understand anyway. At least this is what they want you to believe. [Reza’s note, I believe it’s laziness more than anything, and a subtle way to discard the message by discrediting the messenger, which means, not having to bother taking on the challenges he poses].
All of this goes against one of the basic tenets of the teachings which is that 'the first step is the last step', and that there can be no gradual learning when it comes to seeing the 'what is'. A progression in learning only takes place when you are learning a skill or something, not when you are looking at yourself. Either you do or you don't. And when you do the transformation is instant.”
Corruption of Buddha’s Work
It is credibly documented that in a remote monastery Buddhist monks who spent their entire lives meditating in special boxes – hours on end – perhaps 15 hours a day – said the hardest thing is controlling the mind !! Did the whole tradition take a wrong turn trying to deduce what Buddha say – dilute it – (sounds familiar?) – and eventually turn it into something meaningless based on fundamentally flawed notion that the controller is different from the controlled!!
I am absolutely not a Buddhist but I could imagine he didn’t have to control his mind, and quietness, stillness, nirvana, was as natural, unforced, unintentional, as raindrops. When a person learn the limitations of the stream of thought-time, that stream comes to an end – but it’s not something that can be forced. A breeze can’t be forced but the window can be opened. That other movement is always there but it’s only a free mind that can perceive it. Freedom can’t be forced and is not the result of control, but a natural consequence of order. The silence which is forced is not the eternal silence.
Had a lovely visit from a Brockwood graduate. It’s amazing to hear the culture of the place as compared to other schools and what is emphasized. Friedrich kindly shared an insights about people who keep asking what is the best preparation for life after Brockwood whilst he thought, the answer, is Brockwood :) – I haven’t researched the subject to know enough about how well Brockwood does academically whilst the rest of the world are burning with competition and brutalities that go along with it. Luckily Brockwood doesn’t have that and yet still prepared the students well enough for “life after”. What stands out for me loud and clear is, looking at the Letters to Schools regularly,
Krishnamurti had an immense passion for education – a sentence I’ve often repeated to teachers I meet is, it’s only thought right education that one can bring about new humans who bring about a new society. Put that against the background of the decadent society, corrupt tradition, and shallow, instant, superficial, competitive mentality that influences young people – where there’s even competition in pursuit of pleasure! An educator surely has a handful. And one of the best preparations for this challenge is to take on the challenges and explore the pointers that this person who dedicate his entire life to right education poses.
Trap of Dialogue About Dialogue
There is a great tendency in many dialogue groups conducted around the work of K to dodge the essential questions which ultimately lead to and require dissolution of the psychological self. One of the most common ways of doing this is to have a dialogue about dialogue. At any point a big challenge is avoided by escaping back to the horse that's already been beat to death - of what is dialogue. I've grown allergic to this question because it often seems to be an ideal, like moksha, samadhi, nirvana, liberation, enlightenment, or some sort of spiritual orgasm which may or may not happen.
Flow is not such a noble criterion. Chit chat and gossip can also have a seamless timeless flow.
The need for outer space seems to be related to lack of inner space. One who has inner space - lives a life of inner quietude - doesn't mind too much when people respond quickly to each other. It's good to take time, inhibit, pause, and it's a good experiment to not respond to any remarks in a dialogue group without some pause, space -- an idea which some vehemently oppose, which is the same as those who oppose quick responses to others.
When a person has space in their daily life, they have space in a dialogue group. If they don't have space in their daily life, which includes the state of the body (e.g. whether it's stimulated...), then they try to either fill the dialogue group with noise, or use the group as a means of finding space and become impatient with those who may have a quick mind - or for whatever reason are quick responders.
If after 25 years the same folks are trying to figure out what dialogue is, perhaps it's not something to be figured out :)
Perhaps the time together needs to be used -- instead of trying to reach an ideal state of relating and communication which can end up in hours and years of often useless dialogue about dialogue -- to address questions that come about in people's minds who watch a video, read a book, hear a phrase, meet a passerby who says something profound, a challenge they're faced, a pointer they come about.
Victoria Boutenko’s Selection of K Quotes, Green Smoothie Retreat
Victoria Boutenko, the world-renounced author, goddess and founder of the Green Smoothies revolution kindly invited me to a Green Smoothie retreat where I gave a talk about K (video here).
She handed out this set of quotes to her participants: home.datacomm.ch/rezamusic/quote_k.html#victoria
Incidentally, the translator who translated her books into Russian is the same person who translated K books into Russian.
Victoria holds healthy retreats all over the world. More info on her work can be found on www.rawfamily.com|
Interesting article about Soma: http://www.huxley.net/soma/index.html
I don't agree with him on everything but it does remind be a bit about when K talked about the origins of yoga (which was on rare occasions). He referred to the ancient kings who used to eat a plant which would keep them young and when that plant was no longer found they invented yoga.
Of course throughout the years, especially the last couple of decades yoga has totally lost its significance and became just another form of exercise in the West and like music genres regularly I hear of new kinds of yoga – in Santa Cruz I even saw a “punk yoga” class where yoga was being done to punk music!
I call the section on the following authors/speakers “self market” because in the work of both of these new age / pop psychology / or whatever you call it – the self is always there and that’s a big deal because the self feels good, the self sells, the self wants to continue and is not going to pay for anything that calls for the annihilation of the self :-)
So as I go through Byron Katie and Eckhart Tolle, what stands out vividly is that, the self is always there!
Many marketing oriented ideologies glorify the self – all those Est, Forum, Landmark etc., were based on self-crystallization. Ideologies which promote dangerous ideas as you are the light, you are God, etc. – which the ego gets a hold of and it’s a kiss goodbye to the Otherness, to love, to that vast powerful movement which is beyond time-thought. Eckhart Tolle does just that.
Krishnamurti, on the other hand, being as deep and genuine as he is, like the likes of other great ones who came before him, like Rumi, talks about the total ending of the psychological self.
Steven Smith once told me someone asked K about the cross and what it symbolizes and K responded, the naughting of the self!
UPDATE: Duncan sent this:
About the cross and no 'I', I heard K say similar last week to staff at the new Oak Grove School: 'Religions have said: cut out your ego. The cross, it meant that: cut out the 'I'. And yet they haven't done it.'
Byron Katie has found a way to make a LOT of money by selling a method which has some truth in it but it's nothing noble. People like J. Krishnamurti and Rumi have been saying these things far longer than Katie and they refused to systematize it. Systematizing it reduces it. So you pay a lot and what you get is a reduced version of something much bigger.
Now she's doing seminars and charging a ton of money -- and her trainers also have to pay a lot of money to stay certified -- it's all gotten sucked into a money making scheme and self hypnosis.
If people who felt the world needs to be changed did nothing about it we'd still be living in stone age.
Insight IS action. [I added the rest of the text later:] Katie didn't invent this. On the other hand, I think she’s misunderstood a fundamental concept, which is about the art of observation: to take no action inwardly, such as judging what one sees, to let what-is flower, etc. – and she’s promoting this idea, it seems to me, as not taking action outwardly, tolerating, accepting, putting up, being passive, which is a dangerous idea and nothing new – that idea has been promoted by Lao Tsue and people who came before him. But Western Civilization has made great strides in science and technology, because luckily they did not follow what Byron Katie promotes.
“loving what is” is such an abused concept. A person is starving – try to tell them to love starving. There are a gazillion examples. I suspect this whole concept came from her lack of understanding what Rumi and Khayyam and K and others were talking about (LOL)! If want this opened up please email me – I don’t feel like doing it here because it’s so obvious!
Morten Tolboll did an elaborate critique of Byron Katie’s The Work and shows several holes in it and calls it a cult:
“The turnaround technique must be a dream for any bully, liar or manipulator. If you are critical, then this is due to your own false thoughts.”
Power of now is a truth which ET did a good job of bringing attention to however, he fell short of annihilating the psychological self. I have not read all his books nor have I heard all his talks but I've read and heard enough to conclude just like other new age psychology and self help gurus like Byron Katie he does the right business move and wrong moral move of not talking about total ending of the psychological self. I don't allege he does so on purpose but given his exposure to the work of JK, there's no excuse for him not to know -- or did he selectively listened?
What Tolle teaches is wrong and misleading. It promotes the ideas of choice, control, becoming, separation, and methods as means to an imaginary liberation. ET has even begun to look like ET -- he says he doesn't think much which might be a problem because thinking has its right place (vs. the misleading idea he promotes) -- and he makes fun of people whose faces turn into frawns after years of confusion but his posture speaks volumes about his own "liberation".
But ET had much better posture. Tolle looks like a hunchback.
I can’t stand listening to Eckart Tolle. He’s so slow, dull, and boring.
He's read all his books and listens to his audios every day. Yet he said his thought is restless and he's failed at practicing the power of now and asked for even more instruction than all the books he's read and daily audios he's heard.
Tolle goes on with jokes and so on but doesn't give the poor guy the scoop - why? I don't know. He said the guy's mind is restless because he's addicted to thinking, and because his mind tries to get away from "simplicity and is-ness of the present moment".
What he fails to tell him is, understand why your mind is restless! So simple and so much missing from the Tolle's cult in which he subtly has himself as the guru -- as the spiritual teacher -- yet to dodge the burden he says it's the consciousness that's important -- yet he gives undue importance to himself by saying the guy was able to not think in Tolle's presence and the fact that the guy is able to listen to Tolle without thinking is proof that it's working (LOL).
And the subject is brushed aside by jokes…
He alludes to it that thought makes you feel a sense of self – but says absence of it seems like sleep so the person avoids it. Why the holdup? I sense it’s so because, again, calling for total ending is dangerous business (and may be dangerous for business) because the listener may realize with ending psychologically he may have to end his dependence on Tolle too!
If you get tired of this surface stuff dig into J. Krishnamurti's work which taught Tolle a lot of what he knows.
Tolle’s assertions are weak – e.g. on pleasure vs. joy, separating inside from outside. He says joy comes from inside and pleasure from outside. That can’t be farther from truth – at the core of the issue is separation of inside and outside which in fact are one and the same movement. Tolle should know better! One can feel a lot of joy from seeing a smile of a child (which is “outside”) – if his argument is that the feeling of it is inside, so is the feeling of pleasure – so he must mean the cause and the above example shows the cause of joy being “outside” !!
A thorough investigation of what K points out is far richer than falling for these new age gurus.
“Loving and leaving the good life” – Helen was a friend of K when they were very young. They loved each other and in today’s words we could say they were lovers however, in those days even holding hands was a big deal (according to her book they did not do things young adults called lovers these days do).
I found her book interesting and revealing, again, in how much K was a human, and I view that as part of anyone’s greatness: to be a human. He was an extraordinary human – very intelligent and unique in many ways. At a physical level, he had the most incredibly powerful energy when I met him when he was 88, 89, 90 years old. He has a brilliant mind which comes across clearly in his writings and talks -- though I do not believe anything he says, and I am NOT his follower. What he says is a set of pointers and challenges – not something to believe.
She met K in 1921 when she was 16. K was 26. Sweet Little Sixteen! K was a speaker at a Theosophical convention she attended in Paris. (This is before K breaks away from Theosophy and goes freelance for the rest of his life not belonging to any organizations or ideologies).
“I remembered little of what he said, only the slight, dark, handsome figure on the vast illuminated stage and his halting delivery at that time.
Reading this account I remember my own youth and falling in love so easily (I still do) – and the long letters I used to write. K wrote many letters to Helen – some 12 pages long (that’s easy ;-) – actually I developed a hand injury handwriting such letters when I was younger – now I’ve almost forgotten how to handwrite as everything is typing – what is evolution going to do to our hands?! Make them look like sdfg keyboards?).
The love pouring out of his heart for this tender 16 year old is so touching when you read these letters – but it’s so usual – so human – so normal – it’s the story of my life :) being a “romantic fool” :)
I think part of it is eastern. I’ve seen a lot of men who are romantic fools in the west but something about the eastern flavor is special – just like the spice.
“The feelings he tried to express that August afternoon in Holland were something much greater than a romantic summertime love.”
“Helen and Krishna walked, talked, and bicycled together over the moors and heather fields… “
“At 26 he had never been in love until this astounding passion had come to him for the young American girl of 17”.
He wrote: “you must be great – not because it may bring you power and pleasure but because intrinsically it is right … “ and goes on to give her tips on many things including caring for the body.
Then one day she received a letter from Annie Besant…
According to Amazon.com, e-books have become so popular that they are now outselling hardcover books, with 180 e-books sold for every 100 hardcovers that go out the door,
I’ve written about this in past circulars, however, being in Dubai recently I noticed in one bookstore they had 15 different K books. All had his picture on them which is not good marketing, IMO, and it was a wrong decision of the foundations/publishers to personalize the books – the foundations should have known since the publishers don’t know, that it’s the message that’s more important … and some of his pictures are not particularly handsome, nor a good packaging, That is precisely the reason you don’t see Osho’s picture on many of his modern books.
After buying Think on These Things a friend went to the park to read it and by chance sat on a bench with a label on it: “FREEDOM BAKERY” – the picture she took included the chapter title: “THE PROBLEM OF FREEDOM”.
"In India, people will first find a rock under a tree that looks like a lingam. Start doing pooja. Then spin some story like Rama sat here and did pooja on his way to vanavasa. Soon a temple will come up and then money will come pouring in from all directions. This circus has gone on for thousands of years." Subu Kavasseri
Another Guru For Gullible Westerners
Met a lovely young lady in America who was saving up to go to India to obtain freedom by paying a guru called Nithyananda some $6000. Excuse me, Parmahamsa Nithyananda! He looks like Yogananda, I guess, therefore the Parmahamsa has to be his prefix too. His 21-day retreat touts awakening of kundalini, transformation of relationship, explosion in health, liberation from ALL past baggage, and of course, happiness and fulfillment; “total transformation”, “anti-aging”, “bliss, joy, freedom”, “wealth”, “success”…
Let’s get real :)
New Book by Jackie Griffiths: 'Ox Herding: A Secular Pilgrimage.' A description of the journey to find... that which has never been lost. http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00J2WWOYM/
Talking about dilution:
Indian guitarist showed up at K gathering in Switzerland and asked to play – the organizers apparently didn’t qualify him and dedicated an evening in the busy schedule to him doing a concert. Before you know it sound of chanting the Hare Krishna mantras were blasting from the basement. Half the people left – but half stayed till the end and enjoyed the entertainment (LOL)… The organizers have a learning mind so it won’t happen again. Nevertheless, the Indian aspiring guru who’s hoping to tap into the gullible-westerners market, put on his website that he did a concert at the Krishnamurti gathering !!
His new “tour” charges $45 for music and meditation which is a total rip off. The music is touted as “transforming” and all the right marketing terms are used to promote to the rich gullible Westerners. Imagine how many people in India would be willing to pay 2700 Rupees for some music and meditation!
An ex trustee / friend / close friend of K / wrote:
"Dear Reza: I too am skeptical of this quote attributed to K. We have plenty that we know he said and, in truth, if one heard just one talk, it would be enough. All these anecdotal quotes attributed to K are suspect and all of them seem to be missing something. Paraphrasing K leads to disastrous results. I think it’s best to stick with the authentic K—what we know he said—and let the rest remain unattributed. What do you think? "
I wrote: "Dear <>: I fully agree. It's been attributed by someone and on internet things get spread like wildfire. Oh well ! That's the kind of distortion that is hard to control. The kind of distortion KFA is doing is controllable. Writing some things on the subject - will be in touch. Kind Regards Reza"
Another K scholar wrote:
"Hi Reza, Greetings! I have no knowledge of this. Of course there are quite a lot of comments K made to people whose accuracy one simply can't check. I wouldn't say this one is impossible - it might be something said in the context of Nitya's death and/or be one of K's more mystical usages of language. Also, there are certainly things said by K in his early years which would not be repeated in his later ones. This might be one of those. Can't the source person be asked?All the best"
I wrote back:
"Dear <>: Many thanks indeed for your very insightful and astute answer. I fully agree -- perhaps he said it in his early years - or there are many possibilities of misquoting - for example, maybe UG Krishnamurti said it! Having read much of JK's mystical language this one still sounded foreign but we just don't know. I started trying to verify it but stopped when I realized the professor died and tracing it through his wife will take more bandwidth than I have. Hope to see you sometime soon. All the best Reza"
This might come as a shock to those who believe crop circles are made by aliens. I met several people – and only in the UK – who believe so including some heavy weights (not literal) I met at Brockwood.
A California high tech company (NVIDIA) commissioned a UK team, experts at making crop circles, to do an amazing crop circles, the perfect, complicated, beautiful ones which look to be from out of this world.
Later it was revealed it was a publicity stunt and details shattered believes that it’s the aliens who do these things – whilst it’s expert teams in the UK who like to pull people’s legs :) – I’ve always been fond of British humor.
Radha Burnier who passed away last year at the age of 90 played the role of Melanie in the 1951 movie of Jean Renoir called The River (Le Fleuve), http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRGnmQA3Ig0
I appreciate your feedback, comments, and corrections.
© Reza Ganjavi, All Rights Reserved, 2014
Thanks very much Reza for your excellent circular with its comments and links to Krishnamurti interviews and other useful things. I enjoyed hearing you talk on psychological freedom and Krishnamurti. Feel you have got the spirit or flow of undiluted intelligence which he took such immense care in discussions and his talks. It was great to be able to access the videos of K talking too... have not seen or heard these for many years... Thanks again and congratulations on the great work.!
What I value about the work you have been developing in your site, and I am specifically thinking about your action (courageous) around the activities of the official (and less official) institutions around the Teachings is that you are not compromised to any particular group or person. You are true to the…. Even Krishnamurti spoke about that during the dialogues published in The Perfume of the Teachings (first chapter: You Have Drunk at the Fountain). Respectfully. A.
“We will treasure your interview with Tom.” “Thanks from me, also, Reza. Your interview with Tom is a gift to the whole family.” “Thank you for the youtube interview with Tom. It is very moving to see him speak there, this loving vivid human.” “your video of tom is really great. And the timing too.”” Thank you very much for sending me all your works. I would like to thanks you very much especially the interview with my also friend Tom. Your questions and his answers are full of significance” “Thank you, I listened to Tom's interview, what a gift.”
Hello Reza, I agree with much of what you say. There seems to be less K among certain foundations. I never met K, but his teachings revolutionized my life…
Hello, Reza Ganjavi, sadly, I agree with what you are saying. Not all people have succumbed to K orthodox. Long ago I predicted this outcome with K 'followers.' As it has progressed I've stayed away from the organization for the most part. These people are so boring and close-minded and sometimes very hard-hearted, but totally unaware of their own psyche. Yes, K would long ago have closed down this organization. We all have his books, CDs, etc. That's all we need. The K organization is becoming a money machine, which is also predictable. Please keep me informed. Where can I buy your book on the subject
Thanks Reza, I look forward with interest in reading the contents.
Thanks for the Circular. Very interesting as usual. I haven't read all of it yet. I was shocked to read the piece about KFA. I'm glad you're making a stand.
What you said on this and elsewhere moved me to quickly write down some thoughts of my own on Krishnamurti and education. They are things which have been gradually coming together in my mind
Hi Sir, Yesterday, I saw your video in krishnamurti. I am an Indian working in Dubai. Although it is wrong to say but I don't mind saying that I follow Krishnamurti. To the best of what I have understood Krishnamurti so far, you are one of very few who have understood Krishnamurti.
Hello Reza, I agree with much of what you say. There seems to be less K among certain foundations. I never met K, but his teachings revolutionized my life. To host new age things at the KFA is most definitely a dissolution of the presentation of the place and gives a wrong impression of the teachings.
thanks for 2014 Circular Related to Work of J. Krishnamurti
Thanks Reza for your Gift
hi Reza....so nice to hear from you again....i see that you did a lot of work about k and i want to say that i really loved your work about k especially on the issue regard what kfa does....i am totally against using the facilities the way the Americans use it...introducing yoga and other Hindu things....i will ready it very carefully and let you know of any remarks i may have about it...again..great work Reza.....take care my friend
I think you should run for office! Clean up this world, this country, even the world needs a lot of light workers, too much darkness rules presently.
p.s keep proceeding with your work, just know the dark souls will be very jelous and lash out because you have touched the truth and courageous enough to speak your mind.
I think you're doing a fabulous job putting things to light. There's too many sheep around following each other and not speaking the truth due to their cowardness, so proud you stand strong.
You're spreading good karma and that's very important, especially for the younger generation. Keep up the great work.
Dear Reza, Thank you for the E-Mails with your writings. Most interesting.
Hello Reza: I am grateful for the links you've sent in your last post. It is a good job and will review it slowly. Receive a warm greeting.
Dear Reza, Thanks for your circular and for 'stirring the pot'. Even if I don't agree with some of your criticisms - and I only looked at some parts - I appreciate your willingness to express your rather strongly held views. I hope they lead to meaningful reflection and dialogue.
This was from a joke someone started, exchanged through email:
"1) Have you heard of the tape wherein <> talks about space aliens dissecting the minds of unconditioned souls to use as cat food for their planet?
2) Have you heard that the pizza at Papa Lennon's are really flying saucers ?
3) Did you know extraterrestrials are part of K's teachings ?
4) Did you know they could beam streaming TV from fighter jets in 1966 to American high school psychology classes? "
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