Various Krishnamurti Related Letters by Reza Ganjavi
Collection of Some Letters I Wrote A Long Time Ago Related To J. Krishnamurti's Work
Response To Carol Brandt
This is an oldie - but in trying to finish with everything related to K in my open files, it ended up here:
Hello Carol
It is not the contemporary research, but research done a long time ago, perhaps beginning with FM Alexander in the earlier part of last century, which clearly showed limiting factors in what you call self-reflection and observation. This is nothing new. Conditioning cannot be fragmented as cognitive, physical, and so on. Conditioning needs to be addressed holistically as that of the body/nerves/brain/mind/heart. Indeed there are neuro-physical aspects of fear and the associated fight-or-flight conditioning.
In the second paragraph of your article you refer to the important ramifications of this to K’s teachings and carry on to refer to a “cognitive approach” of what sounds like a reference to K’s discourse on the art of observation (“such as objectively ‘observing’ one’s own behaviour”) . Your argument is not so clear, but if I understand it correctly, you’re referring to K’s approach as a cognitive one. I would not make such an authoritative claim, but my understanding of his approach is that it is a holistic one and certainly does not fragment conditioning. I also know of others who have studied and practiced Alexander Technique and Feldenkrais methods -- both of which go extensively into the physiology of neuro response mechanisms -- who find K’s approach to the questions of conditioning most brilliant and consistent with scientific research in this field.
Again, my understanding, and not as an authority on K’s work, when he speaks about learning through observation, he is not just talking cognitive (I don’t know how you came up with this assumption). He talks about attention, awareness, to the totality of one’s responses, and there is absolutely no difference between different levels of conditioning. The same phenomena works, whether we’re talking about a “low-level” conditioning which we may have inherited from animals, or a purely “cognitive” one, namely, that any attempt to change maybe conditioned itself, therefore, one needs to observe in “silence”. In the world of the Alexander Technique, this is the first of three steps, awareness, inhibition, direction.
In the fourth paragraph you refer to “other research that shows that there are indeed parts of yourself and your motivations that are beyond accessible awareness” and cite an interesting remark made at a psychoneurophysiology of forgetting conference. This makes perfect sense. You see, the whole science of psychology is extremely limited because it tries to use scientific method to describe and prove some elements of the psyche whereas many of these subtle facts can only be seen by a person within their own being, and another may see the same thing which is a much more powerful form of proof than any limited scientific method could provide. The key is, if another person does not see it for oneself, inside one’s own being, psychology will have a hard time proving it. So we have to take the whole science of psychology with a grain of salt, as an elementary, immature science. For example it may never be able to prove using scientific experiments that the observer is the observed.
One of these facts that I have seen in the book of my own being is that there maybe hidden things, but they’re never stored in a leak-proof container. They do and are bound to “bubble up”. And I understand K to throw a challenge there: look at the things which are bubbling up, showing their head, during the day, and in sleep.
In paragraph 5 you’re making the assumption that the conscious and the unconscious are actually separate repositories. I will not rely on authorities or quote scientists because no-one has been able to make any remarkable progress in this field, perhaps for the reason stated above, I have read in the book of myself, and I believe, K refers to the same thing, that distinguishing conscious and unconscious is futile. The fact is that the unconscious does show itself, if one can look, and if one is too conditioned to look, it is possible to see that conditioning if one is earnest, interested, eager to find truth.
In the same paragraph you say: “K distinguishes the body’s ‘intelligent’ response to danger without specifying that that ‘intelligence’ works in both ways.” This is not correct. I understand K to point out to the proper place of body’s own intelligence, as well as, conditioning. It seems that the root of your mis-understanding is the assumption you made that K talks about just cognitive conditioning, which is absolutely not the case. He talks about conditioning, period, not just cognitive, and everything he says about conditioning fits right into psycho-somatic and somatic conditioning.
You raise a question in the next paragraph regarding conditioning vs. intelligence. Is the body’s intelligence to run away from a snake conditioning or intelligence. The question is clear but not so interesting because it merely depends on how one defines those words. You carry on assuming that K makes “the assumption that through cognition” change can come about and since some low level responses, e.g. fear of a snake, “bypass the cognitive function” there is a “problem” with K’s implication regarding change. I don’t quite see this as a problem – my primary concern is not to get rid of my body’s fear from snake. What I was concerned with when I ate meat for example was the fear in the body without any cause, when I ate meat, which disappeared when I stopped eating meat some 20 years ago. And I went through a thorough scientific experiment on my own body. Scientific meaning, philosophical, as all sciences came from philosophy, meaning loving wisdom and truth and not settling for less.
K’s work needs to be furthered, no question about this. If he was alive, he would be speaking about Internet, and the latest research. The greatest remark he made with reference to this is “do not follow me”. However, the items/fields that you mention are already part of K’s teachings. His discourse on conditioning is at a level which is absolutely consistent with everything I’ve studies in such scientific fields including the limitations, inhibitions/prohibitions you mention. So I don’t think this “needs to be introduced in K thought”. “K thought” already includes it. You have not shown that it does not.
There maybe areas where K’s work stops short. He was not, and did not claim to be omniscient. However, this will not effect its ability to “survive”, so I do not think the Foundations and friends of K have to worry about that. His teachings are so vast and rich that they have enough substance to last a long time! You’re assuming that nobody “gets it”, and you’re implying that this is the case because of shortcomings! Wrong my dear! How do you know that nobody gets it? Are you just repeating what K said? How do you know what he meant? I heard from one credible Foundation member that that remark of his was in reference to people around him, and I have heard otherwise as well. It does not matter.
You are also incorrect in assuming that “built-in”, fixed factors that limit our ability to observe can not be “swept aside”. Yes, I can not see behind my head because my eyes are built in the front of my head, but that’s about it. Everything of importance, in the deepest layers of what you call unconscious, does bubble up, and can be seen. I would not accept the “latest research” if it told me, “no, it cannot, because it bypasses through your cognitive mechanism”. I’d say, look at the whole of your being, and not just a fragment. K clearly talks about awareness into how you eat, how you walk as well as to thoughts and feelings.
In the 8th paragraph you say that K perceived some of what he said as truth whereas they were just guesses, conclusions, “surmise”. “Research by other people cannot be ignored or dismissed when it doesn’t gel with K’s thinking”. Indeed, but who’s dismissing it? Nothing you have said so far shows anything that contradicts with what K taught. You must have met people who have said they’ll close their eyes to all new research because K gave them everything they ever need. This thinking in itself is against K’s teachings. I do not see the necessity of your going on about how people should doubt what K said – he already said this in almost every talk! To carry K further and to doubt and question what he said is certainly valid, but you have not shown anything in your article that “K wasn’t able to go” or “where he was wrong”, though it sounds like you think you did. So my humble advice is, if you read a few more volumes you might come across points he makes about holistic – not merely cognitive -- approach to conditioning and change.
Please give us a break and don’t give so much credit to this elementary science of psychology which you claim to be able to explain “all of K’s experiences” “and the ‘supernatural’ aspects”. Can you please explain those items in the last paragraph of page 30 using “psychological terms” or any kind of terms you like. Maybe people you’ve met who are “followers”, who might have made of K a god, try to explain his phenomenal intelligence with beliefs or conclusion, but then again, that in itself is contradictory to K’s philosophic approach of seeking truth, wisdom, and not settling for less. Most students of his work that I have met resort to “I don’t know” when it comes to the mysterious. Even K himself didn’t attempt to explain “all of his experiences” which you so humbly claim to be explainable by psychology! This is so funny – a real good joke!
Lastly, you’re assuming that your ignorant audience whose eyes you have just opened, have concluded that “one single enlightened insight is going to blow your brain cells inside out and voila – no self”. Who’s making such a conclusion? A fanatic who exists in the form of an image in your mind?
What has got me puzzled is why The Link has published this article. Where is the Link going and what is its purpose? Sometimes less is more, specially when it comes to such a delicate subject as K’s teachings.
Affectionate Regards,
Reza
Letter to Dr. Weeraperuma
TO: Dr. Weeraperuma, Villa Claudia, Quartier La Garigue, F-83460 Les Arcs-sur-Argens
FROM: Reza Ganjavi
7-Feb-99
Dr. Weeraperuma:
I am a student/friend of K’s and knew him when he was alive. I am not affiliated with, nor work for any K related organizations. Recently I came across something you’d written to another friend completely refuting K: “the teachings are worthless and an absolute snare”, and “the feelingless money-grabbing and power-hungry characters who ran and still run the foundations”. I am sorry that you have joined the gray anti-K camp. Perhaps, like a couple others, you will write a book too and make lots of money. It seems fashionable and marketable to be anti-K these days. I guess because it is much easier to refute him than to live the challenges he poses – or to really try to understand what he taught and test it in daily life. My purpose in writing this is not to confront you. Neither is my purpose to protect K or his friends. Your logic in the correspondence I saw on this subject was so weak that it is not worthy of comment. But I am doing this for my own sake – to empty my mind – I may or may not send this to you.
My impression is that K was made into a god by several of his associates. This “god-making” facility, weakness, is almost a common human conditioning and I’ve seen it done by even those who were not so close to him. You made him into a god – as you indicated – and you accuse him of selfishly hypnotizing you to make you work for him for years. A strong man does not get hypnotized. I congratulate you for finally questioning K - but it seems to me that just as you took an extreme stance for him, you are taking an extreme stance against him – your behaviour is still extreme. In fact, you are doing what K asked all his friends to do: to doubt him, to question him – that’s healthy – but your extreme stance has corrupted you.
You’ve been hypnotized again – by gossip – how dare you bring up the Clinton case – are you hiding behind the mask of conservatism as Ravi Rabindra did in his gossipy book? Another’s sexual life is nobody’s business. K spoke to you about sexual purity. Do you know what that is? It does not mean not having sex. K said celibacy is to have no image. Have you tested what an immense truth this statement points to? Or the whole time you were impressed by the person – so missed the boat? Do you know what a whole, holy experience sex can be – with all your senses fully alive? That’s not my business to ask! But perhaps if you did you would not separate it from holy life.
You make him into a god and then shoot him down – exactly what your camp-mates did. You will not understand if I explain to you what K’s teachings have meant in my life and the lives of a few people I know. But I do not perceive him as a god. His beauty was that he was a human like you and I – but a great one – so you have to have come upon greatness to understand it. Then you wouldn’t perceive him as a hypocrite. There is great order in the apparently chaotic cosmos. Being a human is what made him great – do you understand? He had the same problems you and I do. He had a restless mind, etc. etc. and he did not try to hide it – he looked at it, wrote about it, earnestly. Because he was a human he could discuss our human problems. I wonder why he’s made into a god. Perhaps this is done by people involved with his work in order to glorify themselves. You’ve been caught like your fellow traditionalists in the idea of liberation, freedom, as a final event – isn’t liberation moment to moment? Finality somehow implies time. Anyway, there are many dangers with making him into a god, and I’ve seen this time and again. It leads to comparison and denial of one’s freedom, but that is outside our scope now.
You criticize the ‘terrible’ foundations as being run by ‘rascals’ who are trying to protect K’s reputation – I can’t speak for them but first of all K himself didn’t care a bit about reputation and what others thought – secondly, he is known the world-over for being one of the greatest men of all time by the earnest students – not those who are after stimulation by gossip. K didn’t like to have foundations either but some minimal organization is necessary – I think the challenge is to stick to this minimum. But perhaps your last words on this subject like those of Radha Sloss will be ‘due to freedom of speech I can say whatever I want’. And there’s no arguing about that.
Regards,
Reza
Another Oldie - Theme Weekend
Again, trying to finish with everything K related in my open folders, this ended up here:
“In the early morning hours of Thursday dreamed of a gathering. It felt great to be in such sweet air. In fact also did some pranayama (deep breathing) during sleep which was strange - perhaps because I had skipped them that day, or a relief from the hot night provided by the cool morning air. Upon waking remembered that this weekend there is a gathering at Brockwood which I had wanted to go to but had cancelled to see my guitar teachers in Italy before AG’s prolong absence [AG had an profound meeting with K in Saanen and dedicated a piece to him “Stella d’oriente” which appears on my CD]. Later in the day he cancelled the meeting. Knowing Brockwood Theme Weekends usually fill-up in advance I took a chance and called thinking they might have one last place. She said we have one last place left! …Talked with some smoker youngsters at the Winchester station, and practiced the guitar in the bus to Bramdean: a very winding, bouncy bus ride decorated with fields of yellow and green, and the same sweet air I had dreamed about…”
Arrival: A teacher, Andrew gave one a lift. Saw Colin on the road – warm greeting. Mary Z looks beautiful, tender, elegant, and ever reserved. Arrived at 5:30 just in time for the video! I’m in room number 11 – same as last time! No Internet is allowed. Great!! The dream of 2 nights ago was a very well needed sign.
Friday Video:
“One likes that good word (goodness). It implies integrity (not being broken up), freedom (when there is choice there is no freedom – a confused mind chooses), righteousness (to see that which is true and false and act)”
“The ending of sorrow is the beginning of love.”
“to live utterly undisturbed, to have no problem, not be self centred…”
“an utterly still state” [like Buddhist negation: not this and not that…]
“root cause of disorder is self, me, ego, personality… it is put together by thought, memory, words, experiences, qualities – separation, isolation…”
Friday Dinner: Good to see an old friend, Derek, after a long time. He is very passionate and inwardly quiet. A new comer asked, what was it like to be at K’s talks. So I explained – it seems somehow strange to talk about it – and the story of the flower he gave me… David’s been engaged in a discussion for a long time – continuing on the dinner line. Asked Mary Z about K’s taste for onions which are abundant in the dishes here [Buddhists e.g. avoid it – and I do because of the smell] – she said they were not part of the recipes in raw form. We also talked about the Complete Works – a new, big project which has just been authorized. The idea was generated through their deliberations. Regarding having lived in the US, Peter said: “If you can cope there you can cope anywhere” – a nice message goodnight.
[PLAY AT SCHOOL – SEE LETTER TO TRUSTEES]
Saturday morning: Did yoga and pranayamas. Showed the Argentinian chap’s Java application of the Book of Life to David and we discussed copyright, the new central K portal: www.jkrishnamurti.org, and the complete works collection. That probably for works before 1933 a disclaimer would appear on every article saying K did not consider this period as mature teachings.
David’s managed to keep his email very private – even the ones whom he trusted it with are sending messages which are not necessary. Email is very prone to misunderstandings. “people don’t read carefully and one should not have more than one or two main points in an email”. He is a wonderful being with a very good and special quality of energy which you can feel and almost see, standing next to him.
Saturday Video [sat b/w MZ & FMA]
“Brain has sought security in things which are illusory”.
[the computer can not create like Beethoven – but it can make Jazz].
“conditioning is memory not fact”.
“root cause of disorder is the me, ego, personality [put together by thought, memory, words, experience, qualities…]”
Saturday discussions: 10 people in our group – Karen H is the facilitator. A number of “new comers” in the group including several young ones. We started with “what is peace” – rather what peace is not – what is not peace. It took a while to find a common ground – that there is conflict as the world is in conflict, and escapes and systems have not worked. Peace starts from within – that’s just the way it seems to be. The self is the root of conflict. We examined its nature a bit. Margaret, a sweet lady from New Castle who reads the Book Of Life everyday but claims to not have understood a thing resembled the self to a 2-headed monster. We examined quality of looking. The “natural law” of change as result of understanding, etc. Emptying, & to let conflict tell its story.
An Indian chap talked of the Gita, and resembled K to a Bhakti yogi - which is unusual as he’s more often resembled to a Giani yogi - whereas in fact he is all and none! Though I find such comparison useless, if you want to look at him through the eyes of the Gita as this chap did, he is a Bhakti through his exploration of what is [not] love, a Giani who seeks to understand the nature of the mind, a Karma yogi, through his discussion of cause-and-effect and right action.
Saturday lunch: At lunch Claudia H walked by – we held hands. A great nap, short, but deep as death. Looked up stuff on CD ROM – many pending subjects that had no time to look up in daily life. Mr. Secretary came through the Centre – looking stressed as he often does despite living in such a stress-free environment – or maybe just on caffeine which adversely effects many.
David was telling another: “Ask fundamental questions and don’t answer it immediately because immediate answers would be answered by conditioning. What are fundamental questions for me?”
Saturday Audio: [It was announced that there will be a music program tonight with dancing, flute, guitar, etc. Later I was asked if I could play.]
“A state of not being disturbed at all.”
“In our daily life / relationship, whether it’s possible to completely end sorrow.”
“To be simple demands a great deal of intelligence and simplicity.”
“One or two people in history have ended sorrow.” – had a long talk with X about this and the context K would say something like this.
“To end sorrow one must have great peace inwardly.”
“[Pleasure creates the centre, the image, and dictates the terms and values…] Why does the mind cling to pleasure?”
“There is a great deal of animal in us. We want continuous pleasure. Thought gives desire continuity.
Saturday Dinner: With David S, Mary Z, Karen H, Frances M. Mary has very beautiful blue eyes – and a deep look which almost reminds you of the love that was pouring out of K’s eyes. Talked with David about the question of flame of discontent which can be positive energy vs. conflict, a loss of energy, yet both seemingly frictions. David had a story that none of us including Mary had heard it – of two thieves who hear a sermon about thievery in Piazza San Marcus – one closes his ear and stays a happy thieve – one who hears it and is unhappy….
Asked Mary about K’s sleep schedule knowing he’s said it’s good to sleep the same time. She said he had dinner in bed every night on a tray, watched a little TV and slept early and woke up early. “I remember you saying before he took Nettle tea in the morning”. Yes, he had a gout in his finger [left hand ‘a’ finger] and Dr. P. looked up herbal remedies, went and collected Nettle and we dried them by the west wing [on a big surface]. [“We found out later that we could buy Nettle tea. I also drank it and my migraine never came back. I still drink it from time to time.”] She trusted me with her new email address.
Dialogue Saturday:
T: I am broken down – I need to be somewhere else – I don’t know how to fix my “car”.
KH: the self is incoherent.
X: “The pain is not knowing”
Not knowing the pain! Not understanding its ingredients when it’s treated as a bundle – it needs to be opened up.
X said Y has a conditioning to challenge.
M: can you look at the ingredients if you’re suffering.
M: to get my money’s worth…[later we talked and she said she came looking for a life-changing experience].
Emptying of content; importance of caring for body;
Frances talks very little but from time to time comes up with powerful ones: you can’t have a quiet mind if you have the “me”.
Someone is setting up the cups in the dining room during the dialogue – lot of noise. Little Indian looking girl from school joined the group. She had a typical line of: “have you done it? how do you know? you’re repeating K”. M & I said one may use same words as K but it doesn’t mean one’s repeating K. When one comes upon a truth that K might have pointed to, it is fresh and first hand because one’s found it out. She contributed positively, though at times, not good at reading between lines.
K has provided many “tools” (insights) – he wanted to set man unconditionally free and help heal the mind. The things he pointed out have helped me and others I know…
Saturday Evening: Great talk with old friend Colin – we shared a room in Saanen years ago. On the way out after dinner Mary said she does not feel comfortable because it is not in the spirit of the place and people just want to get entertained. I said it was not my idea, that we could not do it at all or keep it strictly classical. Derek walked by and Mary told him – that Karen had announced it and David had approved without consulting her – Derek said he was aware of it and the idea had come up before. They decided that it’s done tonight and they’ll discuss it in a meeting later. Trevor (recorder player) and I went off to practice but I immediately had an insight: this place is gossip prone… - came back and told MaryZ I will not participate because I do not want to have a part in future discussion. She said: good, what if they play music that you don’t like! I said, alright, I’ll go to it and keep an eye on it!
Regarding the musical evening [not proposed by me], on the way out after dinner Mary said she does not feel comfortable because it is not in the spirit of the place and people just want to get entertained. I said it was not my idea, that we could not do it at all or keep it strictly classical. Derek walked by and Mary told him – that X had announced it and David had approved without consulting her – Derek said he was aware of it and the idea had come up before. They decided that it’s done tonight and they’ll discuss it in a meeting later.
Trevor (recorder player) and I went off to practice outside but I immediately had an insight: you can easily get into trouble here for no reason and I do not want any trouble – so I came back and told Mary Zimbalist that I will not participate because I do not want to have a part in future discussion. She said: good, what if they play music that you don’t like [meaning, the wrong kind for the ambiance]! I said, alright, I’ll go to it and keep an eye on it! [and I really meant it]. Derek: well, a sort of classical concert. Mary: David Skill should have checked with me. They decided to have the event tonight since it was already announced, and have a meeting about it later. I was sure if they have a meeting later, all the blame is going to go on me, and I need to keep my life simple and don’t need headache.
During the walk Trevor talked to the birds with his recorder. A fantastic player. He was allowed to borrow a recorder from the School and bring to the Centre. During the walk I told the group that it’s better not to do the musical evening at the centre. Rode swing at Inwoods. The importance of not making K into a god. We walked to the grove and watched the sunset and a spontaneous musical evening came along with Alistair singing a song. Jeff showed up to the grove like a kid catching up with the rest of his friends. Karen sang, another got us going on the Gayatri mantra, Jeff told a story, and Margarette said if it was indoors she could have danced - so Trevor played the recorder and we kept the beat – and she danced!!!“Music and rhythm find their way into the secret places of the soul”. Plato
X was missing. His wife said he went to listen to another video despite the advice (joke) that it’d be bad for his eyes to watch so many videos in in one day! [“KH” comment in 06-2002.doc]. Some people went to the pub. I thought this was discouraged!
Sunday morning: Woke up at 5. There was rubbish in the thought – left over from yesterday – so “de-weeded” the mind a bit – and examined the self in all this. I am not hurt! But I am ridiculed.
Wrote a few hours in bed. Yoga, pranayamas.
After breakfast spontaneously asked Mr. Secretary for some time.
T: Copernican cosmology ban was lifted by church in 1992!!!!!
Talked with David about the difference between K’s notion of seeing the true in the false vs. seeing the false in the false.
Sunday Video [Ojai] (camera zoomed on my face sitting in first row) We never question our thinking, prejudices, conclusions to find out if they’re actual or merely opinions.
Final Meeting: I have a lot to say but can not find the words. Let me use this word loosely, Love, and thankfulness. Maybe I can say some names. Mary for the perfume of her being, Trevor for talking to the birds with his recorder, David, for taking all the tough questions and answering them so wisely, Karen, for her motherly and sisterly love, Margaret for her patience, Jeff, for having ben put in a tough position and it’s great to have gotten to know him better… at the very least, I’ll take home many new friendships.
David S: I keep thinking and waiting that the next question he’s going to ask that I’m not going to know anything about (smiling). Gave CD to Kristy apologizing for getting her into trouble and said that what she did was not wrong. Good short talk with Bill T. Mary Z offered a ride and kindly stretched to open the door.
> Reza, Hi. Thanks for the C.D.- almost as good as having you in the back of the car!. Cheers for now, T.
[got ride from 2 Irish chaps – played guitar all the way to the airport which they appreciated].
Response To Krishnamurti Study Centre Questionnaire
Dear Krishnamurti Centre Brockwood. Thank you very much for the recent questionnaire. I received permission to respond through email.
I have stayed at the Centre only a few times. I have referred several friends to come there over the years. I would characterize it as FIRST CLASS in every way. A couple of items come to my mind as points for improvement:
1) I noticed that every room had coffee in it. I did a search on what K had to say about coffee and he surely did not have kind words for it. He did not drink it himself. He challenged us to live without physical, emotional, and psychological stimulants. I recall him saying for a few people who have a physical condition stimulants may be necessary. But let's be honest: coffee is consumed much beyond necessity. In the K-WORLD coffee, wine, and beer are consumed quite regularly. At my last visit to the school during the educational conference, I again witnessed that a lot of coffee was consumed by the "insiders". A student once told me that at the school people know coffee is bad but still drink it... Well, what's wrong with it? I drank it myself for some time. In most people it
creates stress - which is abundant in the K world. Those who knew K personally know his sweetness.
He was not a tense guy, he was an intense guy! Stress is physical conflict... When I stopped drinking coffee I noticed a big difference. I don't want to take this too far. K himself described it the best - it's on the CD-Rom , but I doubt anyone will look because most people are coffee drinkers themselves. I can respect that, but in a KRISHNAMURTI CENTRE, it seems ironic to present a life-style which is contrary to how he lived, etc., please read between my lines - I am not saying imitate him. This is not a big objection. You asked for my impression and I am saying it.
2) The centre seems ultra-conservative - almost to an overly strict sense. This feedback was also uttered by a couple of friends who stayed there.
3) Personally, if and when I attend the centre I want to be able to also interact with the school - perhaps have a meal there or something.
4) In order to boost demand as you intend there may be a "price elasticity of demand" - having more flexible might increase demand. This is a general comment which may or may not apply to you.
Kind Regards
Reza
On Krishnamurti's Early Works and Postal Library
20 October 1997
Thank you very much for your letter of 1 October and for the articles. As I am detached from all K related organizations, I do not know the latest status of the Early Works project. In your kind letter you referred to the group discussion on the subject in Saanen a couple of years ago. Please let me clarify what I said then, which is still pretty much the way I feel about the project. (Thank you for even being interested in my 2-cents worth of input).
I think your work, in collecting, organizing, and studying the early works is invaluable. It is also exciting! I am happy that the project is progressing despite your academic and scientific duties, and I send you my share of thanks for all your hard work in this area. My only objection at Saanen was the wide-distribution of the material, simply because the teachings were not, what shall I say, mature enough. That must have been the reason that K also objected to effectively general publication of the early works. It is a shame to see that the foundations have not fully complied to his wish, e.g. in 'Total Freedom' he refers to himself as eternal truth, and in 'On Nature and the Environment' he says "Come, I will show the way". There are other examples as well.
As I travel around Europe, I have been meeting regularly with many many new people (100's), mostly young, without my choice, with whom a deep level of contact takes place. It usually starts with music, and then discussion on what-is, whether it is cigarettes, university or relationship, takes us deeper in discussing the nature of the psyche and other related topics. The discussions are vital, not theoretical. They are in essence about K's teachings, in action. So, at the end of the day, K comes up. His fragrance thus spreads. A critic could say, Reza thinks he is doing it... but that critic should remain silent because that is not the case. The big difference between Reza and a missionary is that he does not go to/seek people; people come to him. Many times, these people end up buying a K book or contacting their local K group. Many times I end up lending them a book (over the years it got too expensive giving away books) which they can either pay for or return after they read it. At the moment my "postal library" has over 60 books out on loan (many of which are mine, and some are borrowed from F. Grohe's bookshop). To link all this back to the early works, my only objection was that if I tell someone to go and buy any K book (hoping they don't run into Ravi Ravindra or Radha Schloss's garbage), and they pick up an early work and read K talking like Christ, they will immediately get turned off. Even if they get past that point, the teachings, e.g., from 1928, are not mature teachings of K. It is obvious from the little I have read from that era that to him, many subjects which he later discusses vividly were not opened up. I do not think it was purely a matter of vocabulary, presentation, and "the means of expression" as you said Dr. P calls it. It was probably a matter of insights. You can see many of the messages of the mature work in the early works, but again, many of the wonderful technicalities of the psyche and the human condition which he unfolded later were absent. I could see in one of the talks I read that he was even, perhaps a bit frustrated at not having an answer to certain conditions, but the beauty of it was that he questioned and that questioning opened the way for insights - and thus Christopher Columbus discovered America!!
Your idea to preface each book by saying K did not want this work to be considered his "mature" work is good. Perhaps even more could be said. A scholarly introduction which goes into why this work was not considered to be mature would even be better. I wonder if anyone has looked into this and written anything on the evolution of K's early teachings.
Very Best Regards,
Reza <>
To Friedrich Grohe
July 8 1998 file date
To: ag_group@com.mcnet.ch
cc:
Subject: Re: Info on Retriver
Dear Friedrich:
I got cathy's note today saying in response to my last email. I should read the bulletin.
My last email was about Diet but had a bit more to it as well. Or maybe it was regarding the note on Saanen. I hope you'd call me back at some point or drop another note via Cathy to give me some more feedback other than 'i suggest you read this'. Why? Read it because 1) I read it and thought you may enjoy it, or 2) because it is related to what you are saying or 3) you are missing a point which this article clarifies, etc., etc., . Do you feel what I mean?
Anyway I read the article before as I get the bulletin, in fact thought about bringing to your attention the part with Bohm which is tremendous!
You point something out, and I thank you for that, but I am not clear what it is, and an additional comment would help clarify that - specially when something as deep as K is sent. Since Cathy is the channel, maybe I'll ask her to ask you - and your answer could be simply: there is nothing behind it - but when I am in relationship, I am interested in knowing what the deep responses within the other party is - this can be seen without words in personal contact - in the eyes in the body in the energy - and less on the phone, and less in a letter, and even less in a note written by someone else without any explanation at all.
I know you are busy and I am not worthy of a call but it would be helpful
(w) 01-305-1576 (direct line)
(h) 056-426-1584
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FYI this is a response an old friend of K wrote to my note on Saanen:
I totally agree with your posture. It is often the best thing to do is to avoid certain K-followers.
I assume they are looking for certain "cultist" activities. In fact, I had heard K himself say this: "...there are certain people
you must avoid." They are unchanging and unchangeable.
Love & Best Regards,
Reza
To Friedrich Grohe
From: "Reza Ganjavi"
To: AGGROUP@COM.MCNET.CH
Subject: PERSONAL MESSAGE FOR MR. F. GROHE
Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 05:13:02 PDT
Dear Friedrich:
I tried to call you but you are hard to get hold of. It's fair enough to
try to get a friend on the phone - the more remote forms of
communication, e.g. mail, email, fax, are usually one way - but phone,
or an in person meeting is two ways - and given the fact that we are
friends - and I know, or I hope, that you know that we are real friends
- as I am sure you have many unreal friends - people we call in Persian
"flies around the sweet" - and perhaps I define a real friend as someone
who loves you and doesn't want anything from you - (sorry for this extr
long sentence - reminds me of Hegel's super-long sentences...) - anyway,
it's fair enough that sometimes I try to call - and we've had many good
chats (it's always good talking to you). Of course a letter or email
doesn't have to be one-way, but it seems so, as you are so busy - and I
have already said I am not interested in a letter written by an advisor
and signed by you because it is not personal in the sense that it
doesn't come from one heart/mind - the advisor's heart/mind always
effects the sentences, etc... and fortunately I am not in any sort of a
business relationship with you - not asking for money (never have), etc.
I am just interested in F Grohe as a friend, as a big influence in my
life, and for what he is doing around K - without all the curtains
around. It's like religion - I don't need any priests - I like to go to
god directly (sort-of-say).
Whoo! didn't mean to go on for long, but I guess it was there to be
said.
Good trip to California - got rid of my possessions there to make a more
permanent move to my beloved Switzerland. Got a good job in Zurich - a
small division of a large company ($20 Billion annual revenue). Saw
Ulrich in Calif, stayed at the institute one night - the place is
usually full but still they are short $100,000 this year - I wonder
where all the money goes to - and what about next year? Same old story -
Institute needs money...
Good visit with Mark Lee just back from book fair - exciting K related
stories - the man's work is really doing its own work... Saw Dr. P,
Raman, Mary Z, etc.. Couldn't see Bill Quinn before he dies but talked
to his brother and sent him love. Great visit with Oak Grove school,
Meredy, etc., also saw Luisa there - she's doing great art work.
All the best,
Reza
To Friedrich Grohe - 1996
Date: April 11, 96
To: Friedrich
From: Reza
Subj: Latest News From Rougemont
Dear Friedrich,
I am tremendously enjoying staying at Chalet Solitude. Thank you very much
• Read a book tonight, Eteral Voyage by Vimala Thakar. It is sent to you by Hamir Vissanji. She met K in late 50's and 60's in India and Switzerland. She talks about K's healing of her ear, and her mind... The conversations with K are interesting. I doubt the recollections are totally accurate, but generally seem fairly honest. She claims to have reached Home Coming - as a final end to her voyage. Encouraged by K, she went around Europe and gave talks. "Put ginger into people's minds", reportedly k told her She stopped attending his talks, I think, in mid-60's.
• We talked to the person who sold us the computer about the lingering problems. We had not bought the software, it was given to us as a bootleg copy (illegal). It was really his responsibility - we spent almost Sfr4000 - but he says "you did not ask for the software".
Would you buy a car without wheels? Now that we need the disks to re-install it, we realize that we don't legally own it. Any way, he agreed to reinstall everything for us for free, and we will buy the software. This should fix all our problems. I might take the machine to Lausanne, and Cathy would pick it up. She'll test it while she's down there Also, the accountant will have a chance to address Cathy's questions regarding the financial package. We've asked the local vendor for a quote for a scanner, etc., which
we i send to you
• The Iranian chap's name is Majid Rahnama. He considers K as one the greats, but I don't think he is that interested.
• Met Martin Mattli. We were to meet at Hilti. We had not met before, but I recognized him immediately by his peace.
He's an Institute investor. He pointed out: if one is constantly chasing after money, what about the other thing?
• Skid the glacier today. Met a German girl who is studying to be a teacher. She very much enjoyed hearing about K. I am leaving at the latest on Monday. I would love to come back for another few days if it works out. It takes 2 or 3 days just to get the city out of your system... 'II get a massage tomorrow.
• Your hygrometer is defective. You can buy a digital one which works great at Radio Shack in Ojai (MICRONTA - about 25 dollars)
• Please give my regards to Bill Quinn if you would remember.
11 May 1994 letter to international Trustee meeting participants at Krishnamurti Foundation America, Ojai (Handwritten)
14 March 1996 journal about visiting Brockwood Park School / Krishnamurti Foundation Trust / Study Centre (Handwritten)
